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Headlights


iamlibertarian

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3 minutes ago, L. Marcus said:

It's counted as Everyvehicle Equipment; see that discussion in 5E Ultimate Vehicle.

 

Well, that's my problem then. I don't have 5E. I went from 4E to 6E.

 

But then, why do the vehicles created have to pay for movement? I know, silly question. But I ask that because it begs the question of why other things like GPS (Bump of Direction) have to be paid for? Again, I only ask because I don't have 5E books. And, do you think it would be reasonable in today's 6E world for cars to have GPS (whether attached to the car or the user's cell phone) as an every vehicle thing now?

 

Thanks!

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GPS? No worries. That's not a universal here, but it's not such a big deal either. Phones have largely taken that role over anyway. Radio and music player of choice for sure.

 

Vehicles are built as a normal character with a list of exceptions. If the characteristic isn't excluded, the vehicle has it. Your base Vehicle starts with STR and BODY set by Size, DEX 10, OCV 3, DCV 3, SPD 2, PD 2 and ED 2 PD and ED are resistant).

 

It's simpler to have vehicles buy their movement because most vehicles only have one mode. Vehicles some things for free (zero END movement, a couple of points of resistant protection). All this for the cost of nothing.

 

Leaping is specifically excluded, but that's probably a redundant hangover from previous rules where it was derived from STR. Better to mention that point, especially if people are mixing edition rules.

 

 

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1 hour ago, dmjalund said:

I would prefer 'Night Vision", usable by nearby 60 degree arc, Highly visible

 

because that's what it actually does - and isn't that what Hero System is about?

 

Actually... no.

 

Night vision lets you see in the dark, not illuminate the dark. A car with a night vision system (which WOULD require purchase) gives the operator and maybe passengers the ability to see in the dark, but won't have any effect on someone outside the car. To make it work like a headlight you'd need to start adding UOO and area effect and quickly start to realise you're overthinking it.

 

Images provides the desired effect as a standard option.

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14 hours ago, dmjalund said:

but Images as Light is just a special effect.

 

Hmm? No, it's a -1 Limitation to Images (CC.p71)

 

Lucius, you are correct, but my point is that using Night Vision to  do a headlight (or spotlight, or torch) is going to require some hefty modifiers to give that power to everyone within line of sight. An existing power (Images) does precisely what is required without needing that, so I'd not bother with doing it using Night Vision.

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2 hours ago, mrinku said:

 

Hmm? No, it's a -1 Limitation to Images (CC.p71)

 

Lucius, you are correct, but my point is that using Night Vision to  do a headlight (or spotlight, or torch) is going to require some hefty modifiers to give that power to everyone within line of sight. An existing power (Images) does precisely what is required without needing that, so I'd not bother with doing it using Night Vision.

Not really, Area Effect -cone.

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Area-effect cone Night Vision UOO will give night vision to anyone standing in that cone. That's not the desired effect. You shine a light on an area and everyone within line of sight can see it.

 

It's going to be something along the lines of Area Effect Night Vision radius Megascale 1km UOO; only to see objects inside the illuminated area.

 

Images Area Effect cone; light only (-1) really is the sensible option here.

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6 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

But saying Images emit light, is like saying Energy blast emit heat.

 

It's using the most common special effect rather than the power itself.

I agree with you however I do know in one of the editions they made it clear that to create light you must use illusion power. Not that I necessarily agree with it. 

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8 hours ago, mrinku said:

 

 

Images Area Effect cone; light only (-1) really is the sensible option here.

 

I don't know that I'd go along with "sensible."

 

But some time ago I tried a number of methods and found Images actually is cheapest.

 

Dispel vs Darkness came close though.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says any solution should be sensible - if it can't be sensed it's not really light

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13 hours ago, dmjalund said:

But saying Images emit light, is like saying Energy blast emit heat.

 

It's using the most common special effect rather than the power itself.

 

You're correct in that you could also build Images with other senses. But I'm talking about using it to produce easily perceived images (in this case light) and taking the Only To Create Light limitation (-1, CC p71). 

 

6 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

If it’s an area effect, I don’t see the need of UOO.  Unless otherwise dictated, AoE affects everyone standing in the Area.

 

And ONLY those standing in the area. An area illuminated by a headlight can be seen by anyone within line of sight of it. That's literally how a headlight works.

 

It's the same sort of relationship as Darkness and Flash. Darkness defines an area anyone can't see through, while an AoE Flash stops targets in the area from seeing. From the point of view of a character in the area, the end result may be the same, but it's very different for those outside the area.

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Sense and the general environment really are one of the remaining bits of the system that are most obviously bolted on.

 

The ways to change environmental conditions, like ambient light are not as elegant as other, more combat oriented, parts of the system.  Part of that is the often highly variable effectiveness of these powers which makes them difficult to cost and part of it is the built in SFX of that kind of power which sits poorly with the fundamentals of the rest of the system

 

while Images comes to mind as the most obvious thing to create something you can see, as has been pointed out, you could create an animated oil painting with images, that shed no light at all.  Indeed, if you are simply casting light you are not actually creating any actual image at all, by effect, you are allowing anyone who happens to be within range to see stuff in a defined area. You are facilitating their senses and, in HERO terms, it is questionable whether Images is the mechanical effect that should be used.

 

I am not proffering anything different as yet, the solutions that are comping up are all interesting and, if Lucius is getting down to, "I tried a few and this seems cheapest", we might not have an obviously elegant build for it...  :-)

 

Doc

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:42 PM, mrinku said:

 

Hmm? No, it's a -1 Limitation to Images (CC.p71)

6e1 p138 clarifies that limitation as follows (underlined emphasis added by me):

Only To Create Light (-1): Images to Sight Group with this Limitation can only create light. Characters use it to create flashlights, spotlights, and similar effects. Typically these Images are bought with a +4 PER Roll bonus to cancel out the -4 PER Roll penalty for “dark night.”

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On 11/22/2017 at 7:08 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

It wouldn’t be hard to write up head lights.  Create light (I believe under illusions) cone area effect.

 

Headlight: Sight Group Images 1" radius, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (Headlamp; -1), Limited Arc Of Fire (60 degrees; Only on same horizontal level; -3/4)

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On 11/21/2017 at 9:02 PM, iamlibertarian said:

None of the pre-built ground vehicles I have seen, so far anyway, have any Headlights. Some have radar and the like, but even then, I guess at night they drive around with a high chance of someone running into them. LMAO.

 

The reason the vehicles do not have headlights as powers, is because in general they do not affect the game in a major way.  Similar to why everyone now a days has a cellphone but isn't required to pay for one.

The reason vehicles pay for movement is that it affects various combat and flow of action situations.  You need to know if your car can out run another or how fast it can go or how much damage its going to do ramming something.

Out of the ordinary things, like having buttons on you steering wheel from A-G to do uncommon things, also need to be paid, just like super powers.

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