Star Wars 8 complaint box

[massey]

This thread is for everything you didn't like about it.

 

Spoilers:  You will fall asleep several times.  Damn this movie was long.  Lots of plot seeds they introduced and then did nothing with.  They could have trimmed at least an hour and lost nothing.

[Christopher]

Dislike:
That general taking that long to figure out "ramming speed" was an option.

 

Next to none of the questions got really revealed. In particular:

Who was Snoke?

His power is beyond doubt and his Wisdom (expecting the Lightside to push back) was prooven right.

 

Are Rei's parents really what Kylo claimed?

It would not have been the first time a Darkside Character lied about Family maters. Or a forcewielder named Ben. Or a ex-Jedi.

And something in the interaction between Finn and Rei struck me as more familiar then Shipping.

 

Who exactly are the "Knights of Ren"?

Presumably hte students of Lukes academy he did not kill. Or maybe it where those guards that were with Snoke?

 

I guess I have to look for some suplementary material to understand it fully after all.

 

 

I do not think the duration was a weakpoint. It is not like the lenght was not advertised way ahead of time. Indeed I paid extra in the Cinema because of the lenght and Star Wars films are not known for being short. Ever.

[Starlord]

-  Duration can still be a weakpoint, when you 'feel' that length.  For example, I knew the LOTR movies were going to be long but I just wanted more when they ended.  Aliens was almost the exact same length and it flew by.  Also, like B vs S, it had a double ending IMO (Snoke dead, lightsaber broken, Phasma dies, dreadnaught destroyed...wait, then another 40 mins on Salt Planet X!), which also gives the feeling that the movie is going on too long.

 

General thoughts....

 

-  Yeah, Snoke was just starting to impress me as that dangerous villain these movies need, then...ZAP!  So who was he and where did he come from?

-  I can't get a handle on how I feel about Kylo Ren...he is complicated and more than just a straight bad guy...but he still comes off like an angry child.  However, he might be starting to grow on me.  I did like his light side tease.

-  I still don't feel like I know Rey's character.  Also, she did seem to believe Kylo's revelation about her origins and her reaction makes it seem like she always knew.

-  Wait, so Luke dies from a little over-exertion???  He's in his 50's right?

-  Wow, Dreadnaught's are really easy to destroy.

-  So it's confirmed, General Hux is just comic relief.

-  A little anti-Capitalism, anti-wealth message?  From Disney?  Now?  Ok.

-  Whether Parsec was originally just a mistake, they definitely seem to pushing it as unit of distance in this universe.

-  Why couldn't anyone just tell Poe the plan?  Was that so hard?

-  I liked the comedy in this movie.

-  Wow, Mark Hamill is a really good actor...his performance was Oscar-worthy.

-  The way Kylo kills Snoke...coolest thing he has done.

-  Now, what are they gonna do with Leia?

-  They're had better be ALOT more resistance fighters in the Outer Rim.

-  Blasters bounce off Phasma's armor?  Wow, I bet the other Stormtroopers are really jealous....A.  because their armor protects them from nothing  B.  because they have to wear armor that protects them from nothing.

-  I still like all the main characters though, especially Rose and Finn.

 

More later probably....

 

[sinanju]

Dislikes:

Agreed--General Haldo took way too long to react to the attack on the transports. WAY too long.

So...the Rebellion spent years fighting to overthrow the Empire and succeeded...only to get their asses kicked, and get nearly wiped out, by The Order only a few years later. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. I guess the idea is that the rebels always have to be the underdogs, but it's getting really old. Plus, I don't care who they have on their side, a group that could fit comfortably in my living room is very unlikely to succeed at liberating a city, much less a galaxy. At least they didn't drag out another Deathstar-like superweapon (the battering-ram beam doesn't count).

The endless, endless, endless battle scenes. I almost left the theater at the two-thirds mark because I was bored by them. As far as I was concerned, the battle scenes were like videogame cutscenes. Nothing of consequence to our heroes was going to happen in those battles, so I don't really care about them. I stuck it out, and was glad I did because I got to see some other interesting stuff, but my personal fan-edit of the movie would drastically cut the battle scenes in favor of the more personal stuff.

 

Likes:

Snoke is dead. These obnoxious, arrogant, physically-deformed Evil Emperors are getting old. Kylo is at least normal looking.

"I want every gun we have trained on that man!" "Do you think you got him?"

I like Rose.

 

Miscellaneous:

Was what Kylo told Rey about her parents true? I think it was, in essence if not in detail. She was clearly abandoned (no matter how desperately she wanted to believe otherwise), and she has no pedigree worth mentioning.

I thought it was funny how attached Luke was to the Jedi manuscripts given his history. I've seen it commented on elsewhere (tumblr, mostly) that Luke was successful as a hero mostly because he *ignored* the well-meant training of Obi-Way and Yoda when it went against his sense of right and wrong...whereas Anakin became Darth Vader because he tried so hard to be the perfect Jedi. I did like Luke's comment that the history of the Jedi was one of failure and hubris. Yes. Yes, it was.

[sinanju]

11 minutes ago, Starlord said:

-  Duration can still be a weakpoint, when you 'feel' that length.  For example, I knew the LOTR movies were going to be long but I just wanted more when they ended.  Aliens was almost the exact same length and it flew by.  Also, like B vs S, it had a double ending IMO (Snoke dead, lightsaber broken, Phasma dies, dreadnaught destroyed...wait, then another 40 mins on Salt Planet X!), which also gives the feeling that the movie is going on too long.

 

General thoughts....

 

-  Yeah, Snoke was just starting to impress me as that dangerous villain these movies need, then...ZAP!  So who was he and where did he come from?

-  I can't get a handle on how I feel about Kylo Ren...he is complicated and more than just a straight bad guy...but he still comes off like an angry child.  However, he might be starting to grow on me.  I did like his light side tease.

-  I still don't feel like I know Rey's character.  Also, she did seem to believe Kylo's revelation about her origins and her reaction makes it seem like she always knew.

-  Wait, so Luke dies from a little over-exertion???  He's in his 50's right?

-  Wow, Dreadnaught's are really easy to destroy.

-  A little anti-Capitalism, anti-wealth message?  From Disney?  Now?  Ok.

-  Whether Parsec was originally just a mistake, they definitely seem to pushing it as unit of distance in this universe.

-  Why couldn't anyone just tell Poe the plan?  Was that so hard?

-  I liked the comedy in this movie.

-  Wow, Mark Hamill is a really good actor...his performance was Oscar-worthy.

-  The way Kylo kills Snoke...coolest thing he has done.

-  Now, what are they gonna do with Leia?

-  Blasters bounce off Phasma's armor?  Wow, I bet the other Stormtroopers are really jealous....A.  because their armor protects them from nothing  B.  because they have to wear armor that protects them from nothing.

-  I still like all the main characters though, especially Rose and Finn.

 

More later probably....

 

 

I wasn't impressed by Snoke. He was just more of the same we saw in Palpatine.

I saw Luke's snuffing it as more of "I'm done here" moment. Besides, since when does "dying" stop a Jedi Master from meddling in the affairs of the galaxy?

Also, who knew a ship's artificial gravity extend so far above the ship that you can *drop* bombs on it from overhead? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Well, Phasma's armor is reflective. Of course it's better at deflecting blaster bolts. Maybe "matte white" isn't the best color for stormtrooper armor.

 

As for Leia...it would have been better if she'd been the one to Kamikazi the cruiser into the enemy battlewagon. If they'd known....

[Starlord]

3 minutes ago, sinanju said:

As for Leia...it would have been better if she'd been the one to Kamikazi the cruiser into the enemy battlewagon. If they'd known....

 

The wife and both looked at each other and whispered that at the time she was talking to Haldo about who was going to go...wow, this is a perfect way for her to go out...oh, ok.  Oh well.

[Badger]

18 minutes ago, sinanju said:

 

I wasn't impressed by Snoke. He was just more of the same we saw in Palpatine.

I saw Luke's snuffing it as more of "I'm done here" moment. Besides, since when does "dying" stop a Jedi Master from meddling in the affairs of the galaxy?

Also, who knew a ship's artificial gravity extend so far above the ship that you can *drop* bombs on it from overhead? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Well, Phasma's armor is reflective. Of course it's better at deflecting blaster bolts. Maybe "matte white" isn't the best color for stormtrooper armor.

 

As for Leia...it would have been better if she'd been the one to Kamikazi the cruiser into the enemy battlewagon. If they'd known....

 

Still might be the way shoe goes out, or something similar (have her ship blowup in final movie's opening moments without having to show her)

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

 

The wife and both looked at each other and whispered that at the time she was talking to Haldo about who was going to go...wow, this is a perfect way for her to go out...oh, ok.  Oh well.

I totally expecting her to pull a Kor Maneuver there:

 

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

-  Wait, so Luke dies from a little over-exertion???  He's in his 50's right?

He did not die from exhaustion, but choose to "pull the Kenobi". I fully expected him to pull one, but only after reavealing that he had used Force Projection this whole time (propably because he had no Ship for the flight)? That was Epic.

 

He had set everything into Motion that he could and needed too. And becomming a force ghost was the only option he really had left.

 

1 hour ago, sinanju said:

So...the Rebellion spent years fighting to overthrow the Empire and succeeded...only to get their asses kicked, and get nearly wiped out, by The Order only a few years later. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

The Bulk of the Rebellion formed into the New Republic, wich then established a peace with the New Order.

Leia Continued to lead the fight against the First Order via the Resistance. With inofficial support from the New Republic.

 

The bulk of the New Republic fleet "wich was protecting the Resistance" was killed with the Capitol Starsystem in 7. There was no way for the Order to engange the New Republic in Open Warfare. But after deploying a Star Wars System Nuke that wiped out the enemy leadership and fleet? They basically became the biggest military power by default.

 

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

-  A little anti-Capitalism, anti-wealth message?  From Disney?  Now?  Ok.

That was a anti-slavery, and war-profiteering message.

If you can not think of Capitalism without Animal Cruelty, Slavery of children and war profiteering, I think we have very different definitions of the term.

 

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

-  Wow, Dreadnaught's are really easy to destroy.

They were distracted by the transports. You know, "Evacuate, in the moment of triump?" and all that. Happens a lot to the badguys in Star Wars.

 

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

-  Why couldn't anyone just tell Poe the plan?  Was that so hard?

Both Leia and the general whose name I keep forgetting dealt with "Hotshoot Pilots like him before". And considering how much he screwed up not knowing the plan, you have to wonder how much worse it would have been with it.

It is not like Finn and the Engineer (whose name I also keep forgetting) acomplished anything of direct value on their little excursion.

 

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

-  Wow, Dreadnaught's are really easy to destroy.

Do you mean the battleship at the start?

Everything is easy to destroy with weapons designed specifically against it. That is the point of desinging said weapons after all!

Those "B-17 bombers in space" were not exactly practically for anything but capital ship hunting. You would think they are at least good at that one job they have.

 

You mean Snokes Ship?

1) It is not destroyed. We only saw it wounded. A wing is lost with some certainty. Indeed the rebels did raise the Shields, strongly indicating the order still had orbital bombardment capacity.

2) they saw the hyperspace jump comming minutes before it happened. They just thought it was a distraction, not the prelude for a Lightspeed Ramming Maneuver. By the time the bow was pointing at them, it was to late to scatter or dodge.

 

1 hour ago, sinanju said:

Also, who knew a ship's artificial gravity extend so far above the ship that you can *drop* bombs on it from overhead? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Every heard of Newtons 1st law of Physics?

Just place gravity generators (like the once they used for walking) inside the bomber. Let innertia do the rest. Ironically the defense agaisnt this would be a gravity field extending beyond the ship - pointing away from it.

 

 

As for the future:

I would neither underestimate not over-estimate the chances of the Rebels. Sure, they are redcuded to a Falcon load but the First Order always was weaker then the Empire or New Republic.

And the Order just suffered a massive loss of ships (inlcuding half their mobile shipyard at least). Occupation of the Galaxy is not a trivial task, wich is why they invested that many resources in finishing the Resistance at their base.

History shows us time and again that suffering military defeats/damage on certains scales leads inevitably to rebellion in new/recently conquered territory (as in the last decade or so). And they did not even had time to conquer anything at that moment. They rushed in to finish the rebels, the moment Starkiller base blew up.

 

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 

Still might be the way shoe goes out, or something similar (have her ship blowup in final movie's opening moments without having to show her)

I figure they did a testrun of Carrie Fisher CGI back in Rogue One. They do not even need a speaking role to kill her onscreen.

[Christopher]

There is a Youtube Channel called "Spacedocks". He makes videos about spaceships for Sci Fi. And the Last Jedi Ships did come up, both before and after EP 8 came out:

 

 

 

[Starlord]

25 minutes ago, Christopher said:

 

He did not die from exhaustion, but choose to "pull the Kenobi". I fully expected him to pull one, but only after reavealing that he had used Force Projection this whole time (propably because he had no Ship for the flight)? That was Epic.

 

That was a anti-slavery, and war-profiteering message.

If you can not think of Capitalism without Animal Cruelty, Slavery of children and war profiteering, I think we have very different definitions of the term.

 

They were distracted by the transports. You know, "Evacuate, in the moment of triump?" and all that. Happens a lot to the badguys in Star Wars.

 

Both Leia and the general whose name I keep forgetting dealt with "Hotshoot Pilots like him before". And considering how much he screwed up not knowing the plan, you have to wonder how much worse it would have been with it.

It is not like Finn and the Engineer (whose name I also keep forgetting) acomplished anything of direct value on their little excursion.

 

Do you mean the battleship at the start?

Everything is easy to destroy with weapons designed specifically against it. That is the point of desinging said weapons after all!

Those "B-17 bombers in space" were not exactly practically for anything but capital ship hunting. You would think they are at least good at that one job they have.

 

You mean Snokes Ship?

1) It is not destroyed. We only saw it wounded. A wing is lost with some certainty. Indeed the rebels did raise the Shields, strongly indicating the order still had orbital bombardment capacity.

2) they saw the hyperspace jump comming minutes before it happened. They just thought it was a distraction, not the prelude for a Lightspeed Ramming Maneuver. By the time the bow was pointing at them, it was to late to scatter or dodge.

 

 

- Luke's X-Wing is sitting underwater at the edge of the cliff...Rey noticed it.

- My assumption is that you had to actually die first to become a 'force ghost'.  Leaving one to believe Luke committed suicide or died from overexertion.  Either way, you were left confused as to what happened to Luke...which shouldn't happen.

- Poe was quite satisfied with the plan once he knew it, thus your supposition is confusing to me.  The problem is that it seemed that THERE WAS NO PLAN (let's just keep running away...slowly).

- Obviously everything can be destroyed with specific tactics.  Two of the Order's most powerful ships were destroyed (or nearly destroyed) with tactics quite easy to replicate and the First Order seemed completely surprised by...thus my comment!! (see I can use exclamation points, too!) 

[Christopher]

13 minutes ago, Starlord said:

- Luke's X-Wing is sitting underwater at the edge of the cliff...Rey noticed it.

- My assumption is that you had to actually die first to become a 'force ghost'.  Leaving one to believe Luke committed suicide or died from overexertion.  Either way, you were left confused as to what happened to Luke...which shouldn't happen.

- Poe was quite satisfied with the plan once he knew it, thus your supposition is confusing to me.  The problem is that it seemed that THERE WAS NO PLAN (let's just keep running away...slowly).

- Obviously everything can be destroyed with specific tactics.  Two of the Order's most powerful ships were destroyed (or nearly destroyed) with tactics quite easy to replicate...thus my comment!! (see I can use exclamation points, too!) 

- being underwater - especially in seawater - for a year is generally not healthy for anything technological. This was self-imposed exile for way more then 1 year. I asume the ship was "scutteled" by Luke intentionally, so it was not flight ready

- Obi Wan vanished before Vaders saber even touched him. Luke is definitley "one with the force" now, like Yoda and Obi-Wan before him. And that asume he was not a forceghost all this time anyway

- when Poe came too, he was already in a unarmed transport. Not exactly much point debating it anymore. His ship had figuratively set sail.

- one of hte Videos I linked explains that Rebels leaned of the weakness in that Dreadnought in Battlefront 2 Singlepalyer campaign. This was still a Risky maneuver, that cost them most of the Radus airwing

[Badger]

51 minutes ago, Christopher said:

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Christopher said:

 

That was a anti-slavery, and war-profiteering message.

If you can not think of Capitalism without Animal Cruelty, Slavery of children and war profiteering, I think we have very different definitions of the term.

 

The big question is can Hollywood?  (while ironically exploiting capitalism for all it is worth

 

 

51 minutes ago, Christopher said:

I figure they did a testrun of Carrie Fisher CGI back in Rogue One. They do not even need a speaking role to kill her onscreen.

 

Not sure I like that idea.  

[massey]

This movie sucked. It sucked in a lot of ways. I'm still processing how bad it was.

There were a lot of unnecessary plot threads in this one.  Asian chick. Codebreaker guy. 3 scenes of Luke standing over Kylo Ren, all slightly different. These things extended the movie with things that weren't going to be relevant after the film ended. They didn't move the story forward -- they distracted from the story. The stupid crap on the planet of rich people was dumb too.  None of it mattered, all of it could have been eliminated with no loss to the greater story.

They also didn't know how to handle pacing or to build tension. There are a lot of false climactic moments in the movie. We know Carrie Fisher is dead, so you have a scene where Kylo Ren hesitates about firing and killing her, and then some random stormtrooper does, and she's dead. Okay, I can handle that. Except, oh wait, she's not dead, she Superman flies back to the ship. That was completely stupid. But we the audience know that she's going to have do die now, either in the next movie or offscreen. Should have done it here when you had the chance, and done it the first time.

The stuff between Rei and Kylo Ren was decent. Not amazing, just decent. Luke had a great ending scene. There were some pretty good parts sprinkled in there, but the bulk of it was complete drudgery.

The never-ending "fly slowly away from the other guys" was boring. No attempt to maintain dramatic tension there. I laughed at some of the comedy parts (the scene at the beginning where he was talking to the general was funny), but that's not Star Wars. It totally destroys the audience's ability to take things seriously when even the characters in the film don't take it seriously. Too much of the "I have to throw in funny lines and show how witty and self-aware these characters are". You can't be genre savvy in the movie that relies on those genre tropes, not and also have the audience accept it.

It was better than the prequels, but that's not saying anything. By far the worst non-prequel of the series.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I didn't think it was dreadful -- but it did feel a bit off.

 

 

For most purposes, the Rebellion/Resistance is finished. That little group of people flying off in the Falcon is all that's left. The bad guys won.

 

And one of the main reasons the bad guys won is that Poe Dameron is an idiot. As a tactician, he was throwing away precious resources right and left on stupid gambles, going lone-wolf on projects that really needed to be better thought through, and generally attempting to win a war by the seat of his pants. And he was too stubborn and self-centered to realize what he was doing. It's upsetting that he came out looking like a hero after almost single-handedly handing the Galaxy over to the First Order.

 

[Badger]

Well, to be fair, I am not sure if they've ever shown to be much in the strategy dept.  They've pretty much lived off of idiotic design flaws in Imperial technology.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

I haven't seen it (and probably won't) so I have to ask, is it really that bad? Just tell me it's not Phantom Menace bad.

[Bazza]

It's not Phantom Menace bad. 

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Logan.1179 said:

I haven't seen it (and probably won't) so I have to ask, is it really that bad? Just tell me it's not Phantom Menace bad.

It is not Phantom Menace bad. Of course I did not find PM nearly as bad as pretty much everyone else here.

 

The only real issue is that the the "final battle" is either really long with some lulls, or not properly telegraphed.

[Pariah]

1 hour ago, Logan.1179 said:

I haven't seen it (and probably won't) so I have to ask, is it really that bad? Just tell me it's not Phantom Menace bad.

 

My $0.02: It's better than any of the prequels (not that that's a particularly high bar to clear....). It's better than The Force Awakens. It might be better than any Star Wars movie not named The Empire Strikes Back.

 

Yes, it has flaws, some of them really obvious. But I don't really get all the hate here. I saw it, and I loved it.

 

YMMV, obviously.

[Michael Hopcroft]

10 hours ago, Badger said:

Well, to be fair, I am not sure if they've ever shown to be much in the strategy dept.  They've pretty much lived off of idiotic design flaws in Imperial technology.

The very existence of the First Order might owe itself to the failure of the New Republic. We don't know what happened when the rebels were in charge of much of the Empire's remnants, but evidently they did such a poor job of governing that people were willing to flock to the promise of order.

 

You have to wonder, though, whether Kylo Ren really has it in him to be an effective galactic dictator. He might not have the temperment for it.

[Christopher]

Maybe looking at it too much from the action part is a mistake? What if we look at what every character did/how they developed?

 

Poe Dameron:

While he was just awesome in Force Awakens, his record this time is very mixed.

 

His continuation of hte attack on the Dreadnought was a mixed case. It killed a lot of the Airwing. But if that ship had been around during the chase, there would have been 0 chance for the Rebels to even stay on distance. This thing as a sapce siege weapon and would have taken the Radus appart.
He did detect the weakness in enemy deployment and did something for the rebellion, even at a high cost.

Sending out Finn, BB-8 and Rose was a mixed thing too. It did not acomplish anything in the military sense, except cluing the First Order in on the Transport trick. So that makes him half-responsible for every lost freighter. It did give those 3(4?) a Chracter arc, however.

And the mutiny was just a fuck up. No other way to explain it.

The attack on the Assault Ram showcases that he did develop, however. While at first he was with them, he canceled the attack to save the remaining lives at it became clear they simply had no chance.

 

 

Finn:
He seems to be on the Heroes Journey. Particular "refusing the call".

 

At first he was only focussed on keeping Rey save. But he did step up to the heroes role once a opportunity arose.

And his willingness at the end to do a heroic sacrifice not for Rey but the rebellion is in particular noteworthy.

 

 

BB-8:

He has big tracks to fill with being the new R2, but he does it well.

 

Kylo Ren:

If anything, this was his proper introduction.

 

It was revealed how he turned to the Darkside, both his own arogance and Lukes Failure.

However it was also revealed that he was not nearly as comitted to it as he thought he would be: He was shaken up from killing his father. He did not manage to kill his mother when he had a clear shoot, despite actually rushing to that opportunity.
But it is clarified that he can not be saved by Rey (Vaders turn was a rather specific case).

He also does Murder Snoke, becomming the new "Supreme Leader" of hte First Order. If he is actually suiteable for this job remains to be seen.

 

 

Luke Sykwalker:

 

He gave himself a big part of the blame at Kylo Rens failure to the Dark Side and thus everything the 1st Order did.

His self-imposed exile was interesting. Apparently he and R2 had a falling out about it.
His isolation at a remote place and a sealing himself away from the force left him out of the loop, even to Hans death (something that even Leia knew on a distance).

However even he was not save from Development. He did re-open himself to the force at the end and did take responsibility, finally finding enough peace to become one with the force.

His intention to have "the jedi come to a end" was not as solid as he let on. But it seems that Yoda agreed with him none the less (they could not speak before, because he had shut down his force).

 

 

Leia Skywalker/Organa:

 

She did learn a few Jedi tricks over the time. But we (and her) also learned that her time leading the Rebellion is over:
Nobody reacted to the Emergency Signal with her personal code.
People see Finn, Poe and Rey as leaders of this Rebellion/Resistance.

Overall, she was a minor character here. And we know she can not play a role in EP 9 simply becaue Carry Fisher is no longer alive.

 

 

Rose Tico:

 

A totally new character introduced, making her practically the "Lando" of this team. Her mission with Finn and BB-8 was mostly a character arc for her.

Her love confession to Finn came a bit out of nowhere. But considering she rammed him off a suicide path, we can asume it is scincere. I can not tell if Finn reprocirates.

 

 

Admiral Holdo:

 

To be honest, I thought she was a Traitor most of the movie.
When it was revealed that "somehow" the 1st order had followed the Rebels, a Spy or Troyan horse came to my mind (inlcuding Finn being equipped with a tracking device). This was later revealed to be a active sensor.
But even then her unwillngness to tell poe the plan (granted he did got it out to the imperials once he knew it) was suspicious. Not to mention that she was literally introduced in this Movie. The only thing more suspicious would have been a mustache.

When I saw Leia stepping onto the Bridge, I expected her to be on Poes side because she agreed Holdo was a traitor. Turns out Poe and I learned that asumption was utterly wrong.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

JJ Abrams films tend to leave you dazzled and thinking they were great stuff until a few days later when you start thinking about all the plot holes, inconsistencies, poor characterizations, contrivances etc.  he should be a second unit or cinematographer guy.  He's great at visuals and if given better guidance and story could do well.  But not the man in charge.

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Christopher said:

Maybe looking at it too much from the action part is a mistake? What if we look at what every character did/how they developed?

 

Poe Dameron:

While he was just awesome in Force Awakens, his record this time is very mixed.

  Reveal hidden contents

His continuation of hte attack on the Dreadnought was a mixed case. It killed a lot of the Airwing. But if that ship had been around during the chase, there would have been 0 chance for the Rebels to even stay on distance. This thing as a sapce siege weapon and would have taken the Radus appart.
He did detect the weakness in enemy deployment and did something for the rebellion, even at a high cost.

Sending out Finn, BB-8 and Rose was a mixed thing too. It did not acomplish anything in the military sense, except cluing the First Order in on the Transport trick. So that makes him half-responsible for every lost freighter. It did give those 3(4?) a Chracter arc, however.

And the mutiny was just a fuck up. No other way to explain it.

The attack on the Assault Ram showcases that he did develop, however. While at first he was with them, he canceled the attack to save the remaining lives at it became clear they simply had no chance.

 

 

Finn:
He seems to be on the Heroes Journey. Particular "refusing the call".

  Reveal hidden contents

At first he was only focussed on keeping Rey save. But he did step up to the heroes role once a opportunity arose.

And his willingness at the end to do a heroic sacrifice not for Rey but the rebellion is in particular noteworthy.

 

 

BB-8:

He has big tracks to fill with being the new R2, but he does it well.

 

Kylo Ren:

If anything, this was his proper introduction.

  Reveal hidden contents

It was revealed how he turned to the Darkside, both his own arogance and Lukes Failure.

However it was also revealed that he was not nearly as comitted to it as he thought he would be: He was shaken up from killing his father. He did not manage to kill his mother when he had a clear shoot, despite actually rushing to that opportunity.
But it is clarified that he can not be saved by Rey (Vaders turn was a rather specific case).

He also does Murder Snoke, becomming the new "Supreme Leader" of hte First Order. If he is actually suiteable for this job remains to be seen.

 

 

Luke Sykwalker:

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He gave himself a big part of the blame at Kylo Rens failure to the Dark Side and thus everything the 1st Order did.

His self-imposed exile was interesting. Apparently he and R2 had a falling out about it.
His isolation at a remote place and a sealing himself away from the force left him out of the loop, even to Hans death (something that even Leia knew on a distance).

However even he was not save from Development. He did re-open himself to the force at the end and did take responsibility, finally finding enough peace to become one with the force.

His intention to have "the jedi come to a end" was not as solid as he let on. But it seems that Yoda agreed with him none the less (they could not speak before, because he had shut down his force).

 

 

Leia Skywalker/Organa:

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She did learn a few Jedi tricks over the time. But we (and her) also learned that her time leading the Rebellion is over:
Nobody reacted to the Emergency Signal with her personal code.
People see Finn, Poe and Rey as leaders of this Rebellion/Resistance.

Overall, she was a minor character here. And we know she can not play a role in EP 9 simply becaue Carry Fisher is no longer alive.

 

 

Rose Tico:

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A totally new character introduced, making her practically the "Lando" of this team. Her mission with Finn and BB-8 was mostly a character arc for her.

Her love confession to Finn came a bit out of nowhere. But considering she rammed him off a suicide path, we can asume it is scincere. I can not tell if Finn reprocirates.

 

 

Admiral Holdo:

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To be honest, I thought she was a Traitor most of the movie.
When it was revealed that "somehow" the 1st order had followed the Rebels, a Spy or Troyan horse came to my mind (inlcuding Finn being equipped with a tracking device). This was later revealed to be a active sensor.
But even then her unwillngness to tell poe the plan (granted he did got it out to the imperials once he knew it) was suspicious. Not to mention that she was literally introduced in this Movie. The only thing more suspicious would have been a mustache.

When I saw Leia stepping onto the Bridge, I expected her to be on Poes side because she agreed Holdo was a traitor. Turns out Poe and I learned that asumption was utterly wrong.

 

I forgot a few Characters there. Oops.

 

Rey:

 

As the trailers said, she wanted to know where "my place in all of this is". It is unambigious that her force power is really, really high. Comparable only to a Vader/Anakin or Kylo Ren.

 

That being said, I still think she is weaker then Kylo at the moment.  Kylo was still ratelled from killing his father, almost loosing his mother and killing snoke. I asume Lukes forcegost will continue to train her, making her fully able to defeat him.

 

I am not convinced her parents are really "nobodies". I think Kylo did see them, but he might have lied in order to draw her to his side.
 

 

 

Snoke:

 

 

He stays a enigma. It is clear that he manipulated Kylo, faciliating his turn to the Dark Side. But he was also "disapointed" by him. "I expected you to become a new Vader. Instead all I got was a child with a mask".

 


He asumed himself to be fully in control of Kylo, but in the end that cost him his life.

 

Everything looks like he is being replaced by Kylo from now on. But that does feel a bit unsatisfying. He and luke could return as forceghosts in EP9.
 

 

 

Shipping:

What would any Franchise be without the "who will get romantically involved with whom?"

 

Finn/Rose is a couple that was strongly indicated.

 

Rey/Finn was indicated. They have a lot in common, including having only a 1st name and being basically discovered by BB-8 and Poe. I can not fully tell if it is just a realy deep friendship and understanding that will form to love, or they are more "like brother and sister"

Finn/Poe could be possible. Thus far Star Wars - even in the expanded Universe - avoided the thematic of homosexuality entirely. It coul be they fear it is a too divisive topic to take a stance here. It could be that Star Wars is too focussed on "bloodlines" to make that really an option. SWTOR in later storylines has some Homosexual Flirt options, but that is about as clear as it get's.  Star Trek is much more clear in this thematic.

Rey/Kylo. A odd couple by any definition. They have a lot in common, inlcuding being trained by Luke, having killed snoke somewhat together, fighting off his guards together.

Rey did take a huge risk trying to turn him. Not the kind of thing you do for someone you think is simply a murderer.
 

 

[Vondy]

Titling this "complaint box" poisons the well of discussion from the outset.

 

I will pass on participation beyond saying "haters gonna hate."

[Starlord]

Dunno about that.  I said it was about 'meh', but I was genuinely excited to see this movie.

 

My updated list:

 

1.  Empire Strikes Back

2.  A New Hope

3.  Rogue One

4.  Return of the Jedi

5.  Force Awakens

6.  Last Jedi

7.

8.  Revenge of the Sith

9. 

10.  The Phantom Menace

11.

12.

13

14.

15.  Attack of the Clones