Does Darkness Block Solar Radiation and can I "Stick" it to a target?

[Jujitsuguy]

I am looking for a power like a globe of darkness, but it blocks ALL forms of the light range spectrum, from IR through visible through Ultraviolet.

 

I was wondering if Darkness blocks ANY forms of radiation that would be visible and solar radiation.

 

Also, how to make it "stick" to a target--person.  My thinking is "sticky", and also "Conforming", unless it is a form of AoE and moves with target.

[Jujitsuguy]

Another thought...change environment?

[Surrealone]

Since there are two questions, I'll take them separately.  

 

Regarding Darkness blocking visible light, RAW gives us this guidance on 6e1 p238:

"If Darkness and Images (to create light) are used in the same area, the Darkness “wins” — it negates the effects of the light. If a character wants a light strong enough to overcome the Darkness, he needs to buy a Dispel/Suppress Darkness Linked to his Images."

 

As for making it stick to someone so that it moves with them, there's a clear-cut way to do that (which uses Darkness as an example!) described on 6e1 p359:

"Usable As Attack allows a character to 'attach' a Constant Power to a target and have that Power follow him as he moves. For example, Darkness to Hearing Group 1m radius, Usable As Attack, would “stick” to a target and move with him as he moves, thus preventing him from escaping its effects."

 

Note:
I would not expect Darkness to block/cancel the effects of a Change Environment that creates solar radiation felt as heat, for example; I feel you'd need Dispel/Suppress for that.  i.e. Darkness effectively cancels out the use of sense groups ... with a special effect of being devoid of light (i.e. dark) in the case of light being needed to see ... or devoid of sound waves (in the case of sound waves being needed to hear) ... or whatever special effect is dreamed up by the player to explain the inability to use certain sense groups effectively while within the area of 'Darkness'.  (This becomes particularly interesting for things like Radar ... where an area of Darkness will actually show up on Radar as a blank spot into which Radar doesn't penetrate ... meaning someone knows there's something odd there, but can't perceive the actual anomaly.)

 

[zslane]

Darkness can be defined as blocking solar radiation, sure. It will only affect those characters or devices that have a Sense/Detect Solar Radiation. It won't stop any non-sense related effects of the radiation, like heat, sickness, cellular degeneration, DNA degradation, etc. Those require different defenses.

[dsatow]

Personally, this is what I do in my games.  As normal, what you or your GM is likely to do is up to you.

 

1. Targeting an area effect so it follows someone: I allow it but you must hit the actual DCV of the target.  The target is then considered the center of the Area of Effect.
2. I view Darkness as affecting visible light only IR to UV at normal levels for Sight group.  Lower light frequencies such as radio (including microwaves) have their own group.  To block higher freq. radiation at the x-rays, alpha, beta, gamma, and cosmic spectrum, I'd suggest Life Support or special sense group.  Note that Steve Long has said that Darkness does not stop damage(body/stun), so environmental effects that are strong enough to cause damage will trump darkness.  The classic example is a laser shooting through a field of darkness.

[Surrealone]

1 hour ago, dsatow said:

Personally, this is what I do in my games.  As normal, what you or your GM is likely to do is up to you.

 

1. Targeting an area effect so it follows someone: I allow it but you must hit the actual DCV of the target.  The target is then considered the center of the Area of Effect.

That sure as heck isn't RAW.  Given the cost of buying Darkness as UAA, that's one heck of a nice house rule (i.e. a lot of points given away).  

[Cassandra]

15 hours ago, jujitsuguy said:

I am looking for a power like a globe of darkness, but it blocks ALL forms of the light range spectrum, from IR through visible through Ultraviolet.

 

I was wondering if Darkness blocks ANY forms of radiation that would be visible and solar radiation.

 

Also, how to make it "stick" to a target--person.  My thinking is "sticky", and also "Conforming", unless it is a form of AoE and moves with target.

 

Transformation 

 

The level depends on the effect.  If the character can still see but no IR/UV radiation can penetrate the darkness, then it's minor.  It the character can't see at all then it's a major transformation.

[dsatow]

10 hours ago, Surrealone said:

That sure as heck isn't RAW.  Given the cost of buying Darkness as UAA, that's one heck of a nice house rule (i.e. a lot of points given away).  

 

Yes, but on the other hand, the attacker is giving up an attack at 3 DCV.  And most of my villains will not be disable or greatly hindered by something like that.  I have had a player do that to a villain and his buddy who could perceive through the darkness directed his buddy towards the other PCs who ended up being more hurt by it.

[Surrealone]

9 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

Yes, but on the other hand, the attacker is giving up an attack at 3 DCV. 

Not necessarily.  Under your house rules, someone can apply Accurate (+1/4) to the already-AoE Darkness ... and now s/he is right back to targeting the hex without paying the hefty price for UAA per RAW.  There are, of course, very legitimate (i.e. non-munchkin) reasons to do so.  Given this, I believe you're quite a generous GM.

 

Here's some math to support my belief in your generosity.  (I am not trying to change your mind, at all.  I'm just quantifying your generosity in granular terms -- as a mental exercise and for fun.)

 

Consider:

Psychic Static (UAA: 35 real points):   Darkness to Sight, Hearing and Mental Groups 1m radius, Alternate Combat Value (OMCV Vs DCV; +0), Accurate (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (52 Active Points); Psionic (-1/2)

 

Versus:

Psychic Static (non-UAA: 17 Real Points):  Darkness to Sight, Hearing and Mental Groups 1m radius, Alternate Combat Value (OMCV vs DCV; +0), Accurate (+1/4), Line Of Sight (+1/2) (26 Active Points); Psionic (-1/2)

 

 

Explanation:

In both builds, above, the player rolls against the so-called 'hex' to land his/her Darkness at Range.  However, when UAA is applied, the power automatically becomes No Range (per 6e1 p356 and 6e1 p358), which means the Ranged (+1/2) advantage must also be applied in addition to UAA (+1 1/4) in order to maintain ranged functionality.  (LOS is applied here to make the actual attack LOS-based, important for this implementation because the mentalist character has penetrative vision and the power is Psionic ... i.e. a non-mental power built to behave a lot like a mental power ... but not 100% like one since it's applied to DCV not DMCV due to it being centered on an area, not a mind. For a non-mental power this could just as easily have been No Range Modifier (+1/2), so don't think of LOS as being material to the discussion; it just made sense for this particular power build.)

 

By allowing someone to roll against the DCV of the target (instead of the so-called hex) to 'stick' an AoE power to that person such that it cannot be escaped, you effectively give away +1 3/4 worth of advantages on Darkness -- translating to 26 active points not spent using this example -- which means those points are usable in some other way (perhaps to cover more sense groups or implement more Advantages with this very Darkness?) if the example power is in a framework.  This also translates to 18 real points not spent -- which reduces MP slot costs or real points running against a VPP ... if the power is implemented as-is (instead of using the 26 active points to cover more sense groups or add Advantages). The example power sans UAA + Ranged can also be implemented in smaller (active point total) frameworks than the same power with UAA+Ranged.  That's a lot of active point give-away just for rolling against DCV. To be precise, it's 5.2% of a 500 point character total ... and 10.4% of a 250 point character total.

 

Note:
If you would squash Accurate (+1/4) to try to preclude the above as a matter of GM fiat, the example above can also accomplish pretty much the same thing by taking Alternate Combat Value (OMCV vs DMCV; +1/4) ... and then rolling against the target's DMCV (which, in typical games, won't be much higher [if at all higher] than the hex's DCV unless the target is also a mentalist).  This is, in part, why I selected a mental special effect for my example power ... because it shows a legit use of Accurate (+1/4) based on SFX ... and the same outcome (high OMCV rolling against a much lower defensive value, be it the hex's DCV or a target's lower DMCV) can be readily achieved in two different ways that each make sense for the power.

 

 

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if a GM gave me the kind of option you give in this case.  A 5-10% active point giveaway is a BFD to folks like me who enjoy the number crunching exercise (a la the Champions 2nd Edition Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness) every bit as much as we enjoy the storytelling and roleplay.  I can do a lot with 3 active points.  26 active points is like hitting the lottery!

[Jujitsuguy]

Folks:

All good ideas and great implementations....just to make sure to explain my effect...the character(s) I would be targeting are the likes of Kryptonians or others who can absorb solar range radiation for their strength and/or boosts of strength.

 

Now, seeing some power-builds--and perhaps I am interpreting them wrong--are more of an individual psychic/mental effect to block their senses...I am literally looking to block ALL usable radiation in this spectrum from reaching their body, rendering them almost practically useless.

I'll read through these again to make sure I am understanding the effect and implementation of said powers.

Thanks thus far for all of these ideals...great stuff!

Chuck D. aka "Jujitsuguy"

[Netzilla]

If you're trying to trigger a Limitation or Physical Complication, one of the Darkness builds or a Change Environment should be enough.  If there isn't an explicit mechanical Lim or PhysComp, then you'd be looking at building a Drain or Suppress with appropriate SFX (possibly linked to Darkness).

[dsatow]

6 hours ago, Surrealone said:

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if a GM gave me the kind of option you give in this case.  A 5-10% active point giveaway is a BFD to folks like me who enjoy the number crunching exercise (a la the Champions 2nd Edition Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness) every bit as much as we enjoy the storytelling and roleplay.  I can do a lot with 3 active points.  26 active points is like hitting the lottery!

 

That's fine.  I really don't care.  I just noted what I do in my games and I haven't had an issue with it.  I don't have players who care more about arguing rule calculations at game time over game play time. 

[Surrealone]

4 hours ago, dsatow said:

I don't have players who care more about arguing rule calculations at game time over game play time. 

Don't you have players who care about the story, character concept, game play, and math/rules in even/equal amounts?  (i.e. One isn't more important than the other; they are all equally important.)  I ask because I am such a player ... especially given that 2nd Edition Champions inculcated exactly that sort of balanced approach to the game via the Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness (see attached for a quick trip in the WABAC machine).

 

I've personally found that the Champions/Hero gaming groups I've encountered tend to have 1-2 such players ... something that seems to be unique to gamers using the Champions/Hero System.  (I think it's the 'mathy' part of the game that others complain about ... which some of us nerdy types grow to love.)

[dsatow]

34 minutes ago, Surrealone said:

Don't you have players who care about the story, character concept, game play, and math/rules in even/equal amounts?  (i.e. One isn't more important than the other; they are all equally important.)  I ask because I am such a player ... especially given that 2nd Edition Champions inculcated exactly that sort of balanced approach to the game via the Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness (see attached for a quick trip in the WABAC machine).

 

I've personally found that the Champions/Hero gaming groups I've encountered tend to have 1-2 such players ... something that seems to be unique to gamers using the Champions/Hero System.  (I think it's the 'mathy' part of the game that others complain about ... which some of us nerdy types grow to love.)

 

No, I don't.  Most of my players have been focused in those areas at different times in our lives but after 30 some odd years of various games and styles, its come down to the final factor: fun/time played.  Nothing else really matters.  We came to the conclusion that arguing about rules during game time was boring.  Players who made too constricting a story or character concepts tended to bore the other players with their own story or became dissatisfied when the result wasn't exactly how they imagined for their characters.  Game play only in regards to having fun was really the only criteria that mattered.

[Hugh Neilson]

To the question of "sticking" the Darkness (or any AoE) to the target, Surrealone cites the rules as written near the start of the thread.  That's the official rules - the GM is, as always, free to adopt different house rules (and should, if it makes their games more fun and/or is better balanced for their game).

 

To the question of blocking all  solar radiation, I'd allow either a "special sense group" addition to Darkness or a CE power to block solar radiation.  For a character whose powers are Limited by a need for solar radiation, yes, a very inexpensive focused power shuts you down.  That's the drawback offsetting all those CP you saved from the limitation.  For a character whose SFX are being powered by solar radiation, but whose powers are not limited, the Darkness/CE doesn't do anything in combat time.  Last I looked, Superman still had all his powers at night, in a dark room or underground, even though he was not being bombarded by solar energy.

[Netzilla]

For a true Kryptonian, I'd either give them a partially-Limited recovery that required direct yellow sunlight to get full recovery or run all his superpowers of an END Reserve whose recovery only worked in direct yellow sunlight.  For those powers that don't cost END, I'd simply limit them that they turn off when he's out of END.