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Deadman

HERO Member
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Deadman last won the day on January 13 2017

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About Deadman

  • Rank
    Rotting Flesh
  • Birthday 09/04/1967

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Southern California
  • Interests
    Motorcycles, Guns, Sports, Heavy Music...Oh, and Computers, Comics, Sci-Fi and other standard Nerd fare. What can I say? I am all over the place.
  • Biography
    Married, Father of two
  • Occupation
    I.T. Director

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  1. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Okay I actually said that I would delve into Hard Body Armor. In the Hero System there are essentially two ways for a character to buy personal Resistant Defenses. The first is Resistant Protection and the second is the Resistant Advantage on native defenses. Both of these options would essentially work the same way. The Resistant Defense would protect vs. the BODY and STUN of the attack. This means that if a character with 5 PD purchased an 8 PD/ED bullet resistant vest with Resistant Protection and was hit by an RKA that did 10 BODY and 30 STUN he would take 2 BODY and 17 STUN. This takes into account that he gets his natural PD against the STUN because he has some Resistant Defenses. In my opinion this represents Soft Body Armor rather well since the armor does not completely remove the energy of the bullet. This means that some of the force still gets through in the form of STUN. However, Hard Body Armor is a different animal altogether. It does a far better job of absorbing the energy of the round because it spreads it over the entire area of the plate. For this reason I would like to suggest using a different power to represent Hard Body Armor, Barrier. The way that Barrier works is if attack does not fully penetrate the BODY of the Barrier no STUN is transferred to the other side. Because of the rules regarding Barrier it will take some massaging to make it work but I think that it is worthwhile. Here is how I would construct Level IV Ceramic Hard Trauma Plates. Level III plates would not have Hardened. Steel plates would not be Ablative and may have Normal Mass making them more encumbering. 14CP - Trauma Plates - Level IV Ceramic: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 2 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1/2m thick), BODY House Rule, Personal Defense (+0), Hardened (+1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (62 Active Points); Sectional Defenses (Covers Locations 10-12; 36.57%) (-1), OIF (-1/2), Ablative BODY Only (-1/2), Requires A Roll (11- roll; -1/2), Half Mass (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) A couple of notes regarding my build. In my campaigns I have found that Barrier is not very balanced so I have instituted a couple of House Rules regarding it. The first is that I double the cost of BODY. This can be seen in the Custom Adder that I placed on the build "BODY House Rule". The second is that the BODY cannot be bought to more than twice the Highest Defense. This has no bearing on this build but I thought I would bring it up. These House Rules help to balance Barrier at least from my perspective. As you can see the cost is relatively high. This is due primarily to the Advantages necessary to make it work (i.e. Persistant and Reduced Endurance). I also include a +0 Advantage/Limitation on the build, "Personal Defense". This Advantage/Limitation represents the fact that it doesn't cover the whole area, doesn't have to be bypassed by Indirect and the character can attack without penalty as well. Since it has as many drawbacks as benefits I felt it is +0. With this build any attack lower than 10 BODY would be bounced entirely (though they may take knockdown if you use it). If an attack managed to penetrate you would subtract 10 points from the STUN total (BODY + DEF of the Barrier). So let's put this all together... Jim, a SWAT officer for HCPD, gets hit in the Chest by a Sniper using a .50 Barrett sniper rifle! OUCH!! Luckily Jim is wearing a Level IIIA vest with an additional Level IV Trauma Plate. Jim's player rolls the Activation for his vest and makes the 13- roll. Next he rolls the Activation for his Trauma Plate and gets a 9! The bullet hit the Trauma Plate. The attack does 13 BODY and 39 STUN (it has a +1 STUN Multiplier bonus). Jim applies his Trauma Plate Defense first. The attack pierces the Plate letting 3 BODY through. Wow, that could have been so much worse. Next he applies his Level IIIA Soft Body Armor. The Soft Body Armor only gets half of its 9 DEF vs. the massive rifle round which comes to 5 DEF. This is enough to stop the round from penetrating but 24 STUN still gets through. Finally Jim subtracts his natural PD of 5 from the attack (since he has Resistant Defenses) for a total of 19 STUN taken. 3d6 are rolled resulting in 11 and when compared with the BODY Jim is knocked down. The attack Stuns Jim and knocks him on his butt. However, he takes no BODY from the attack. His vest was compromised and against any further attacks he would have an Activation roll of 10- on the Trauma Plate. Then there is the problem of him being Stunned and Prone while the attacker is still there.... I know, I know....guy gets hit by a .50 BMG round and not only survives but takes no BODY...B.S.! Remember, this is a game and as realistic as I want it to be it isn't going to be perfect. Let's just say that it was Cinematic, okay? T
  2. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Here are my thoughts on Handgun Rounds. The only one that differs significantly from Dark Champions is .45 ACP (which in my estimation is far overstated in the book). This gives a really good starting range for Ammunition and can be adjusted from there. As you can see I have not applied any Limitations so this is just the Base for each caliber mentioned. 13CP - .22 Long Rifle - 40gr Solid: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d4 (Ammo Adjustment) 14CP - .25 ACP - 50gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1 (Ammo Adjustment) 15CP - .380 ACP - 90gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 20CP - 9x19mm Parabellum - 124gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1 20CP - .38 Special - 147gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1 23CP - .40 S&W - 165gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+d2 (Ammo Adjustment) 25CP - .45 ACP - 230gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (25 Active Points) 25CP - 10mm Auto - 180gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1 1/2d6 28CP - .357 Magnum - 125gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+d4 (Ammo Adjustment) 36CP - .44 Magnum - 245gr FMJ: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1 (Ammo Adjustment), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (36 Active Points) 37CP - .50 Action Express - 300gr FMJ: 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points) See my first post if you are having problems with the Damages. T
  3. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Now I promised that I would do my next installment on Body Armor.... Modern Body Armor is difficult to realistically simulate in the Hero System. Modern Body Armor essentially comes in two types; Soft and Hard. Soft Body Armor is constructed using very strong fibers which are woven together into a vest or other garment. I don't want to reinvent the wheel here so instead I am including the Armor Chart from 5e Dark Champions with some expansion. Type of Armor PD ED Notes Soft Body Armor Only Provide 1/2 listed DEF against Rifle Rounds Ballistic Nylon Early attempt at Ballistic cloth. Used in Flak Vests from 1960s – early 1980s Level I-A 3 2 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Level I 4 3 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Kevlar (K-29) First Generation Kevlar prior to being interwoven with metallic fibers. In use from 1980s – early 2000s Level I 4 4 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Level II-A 6 6 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Level II 7 7 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Level III-A 8 8 Vulnerable to Bladed Attacks (-½) Kevlar (KM2), Spectra, Dyneema, Vectran Second Generation Kevlar interwoven with metallic fibers to provide protection vs. bladed weapons Level I 5 5 Level II-A 7 7 Level II 8 8 Level III-A 9 9 D3O, Carbon Nanotubes, Spider-Silk Next Generation Body Armor, Uses Sheer Thickening Fluid and other technologies, Level I 6 6 One level up Mobility Chart Level II-A 8 8 One level up Mobility Chart Level II 9 9 One level up Mobility Chart Level III-A 10 10 One level up Mobility Chart Hard Body Armor Used with Plate Carriers to protect vital areas. Based on Barrier rather than Resistant Protection. Ceramic/Polyethylene Plates Level III 9 9 Ablative (-1/4) Level IV 9 9 Hardened (+1/4), Ablative (-1/4) Metal Plates AR-500 Level III 8 8 Level IV 8 8 Hardened (+½) So how does this all work? First off I determine the Sectional Coverage. This means I assign a percentage to each Hit Location and assign a Limitation based on that. For example if someone were wearing a standard vest it would cover at least a portion of Hit Locations 9-12 (Shoulders through Stomach). Given those percentages I come up with the Limitation value. In this case it would be 48.14% coverage or a -3/4 Limitation. Personally I have a chart for this which I can post if you like. Next I, more or less, determine the effective coverage of those locations. In this case I determine that it covers roughly 80% of the protected areas for an additional -1/2 Limitation. Then I apply those Limitations to Resistant Protection along with Focus, Mass, Mobility and Real Armor Limitations to determine a cost. A standard New Generation Kevlar Vest would look like this. Kevlar Vest (KM2) - Level II: Resistant Protection (8 PD/8 ED) (24 Active Points); Sectional Defense: Covers Hit Locations 9-12 48.14% (-3/4), Requires A Roll (13- roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -1/2), OIF (-1/2), Side Effects: -1 DCV/DEX Rolls, -2m Movement, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1/2), Half Mass (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) Cost: 6CP That's right, for the low, low price of 6 character points you are covered.... Well if you get hit in the Chest, Shoulder or Stomach...and roll a 13 or less. Now a couple of things should be mentioned. First, I am recommending an automatic limitation which comes with Real Armor. Soft Body Armor only provides half of its Defense vs. Rifle rounds. Second, you can see that I have added a Minor Side Effect. Realistically Body Armor slows you down. So to show that I have included a small penalty to the wearer. This is to represent the bulk and weight of the armor. While you don't need to do this it really does help keep your PCs from becoming walking Tanks. That is it for now. I will get into Hard Body Armor next... T
  4. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    While I can see some validity in this I would steer away from it as it would then require you to make all Walls, Vehicles and such that are too thick for a rifle round to penetrate, Impenetrable. My feeling is that by staying with the prescribed body armor and incorporating the imposed limitation on Soft Body armor they will do some BODY on the majority of rolls. While perhaps not entirely realistic it is in line with the feel of the game. I tend to disagree. Rifle rounds will do much more STUN than pistol rounds just based on their greater energy. I also think that if something actually penetrates it would be more painful (i.e. more STUN) than something that doesn't. In some cases (low STUN Multiplier rolls) you could get a through and through. While on others you may hit something really important (bones, organs and such). I guess RDU can get a better sense of this by playing it out.
  5. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    My take on the .300 AAC Blackout is that there isn't really enough distinction to matter. True, it has a heavier bullet with 125gr but the velocity is somewhat lower than a 5.56x45 (2215 fps vs. 2800 fps). This results in a similar energy output (1840 for the Blackout, 1889 for the 5.56). Now if you are talking about the Lehigh Defense round, it is much lighter at 78gr but much faster at 2800 fps. Ultimately it ends up with about the same energy (1841 joules). I would say that they both do the same damage (2d6k) and given the stopping power you may want to add +1 Stun Multiplier to it (the 5.56 has this to represent the tumbling aspect). My thoughts on the new 7.62x39 BP round is that the steel core would give it at least Semi-Armor Piercing. If you are using Semi Armor Piercing for all rifles bump it to Full Armor Piercing. Other than that the ballistics of the original rounds would suggest perhaps a slight bump in DC (perhaps making the initial damage 2d6+1k).
  6. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Unfortunately the answer isn't so easy. Generally speaking rifles have higher velocity rounds but not always. There are several High Velocity handgun rounds out there. The distinction also takes into account the shape of the bullet, rifling and other factors. Rather than try to apply some sort of cap on the velocity of handgun rounds I would just suggest going to Wikipedia for an overview. Keep in mind that this list, while long, isn't even close to all encompassing. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are pistols which fire rifle rounds and vice-versa. That is why I don't worry about the weapon but go by the round for the distinction. As for whether or not multiple rounds fired from the same rifle have different velocities...absolutely. When a bullet is manufactured an effort is made to keep everything the same. The reality is that not everything is always equal. Now I doubt that the differences are entirely significant but they are there. It could be caused by the propellant, primer, seating of the bullet in the casing or a number of other factors. Regards, Tom
  7. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    I would say that Reversed Ogive (THV) Rounds would be Semi-Armor Piercing, which I would say is a +1/4 Advantage. Full Armor Piercing would be your Hardened Core Rounds designed specifically to pierce armor and would be a +1/2 Advantage. As you mentioned Armor Piercing would pierce through the amount of defense dictated by the Damage Classes of the attack. So a .22lr AP round really isn't of that much use as it would pierce only 2 points of resistant defense. This is probably why most AP ammo are rifle rounds. I am not saying that ANY long gun is a rifle or has high velocity. I am basing this on the round itself. As an example there are Lever Action Rifles out there that fire .45 Colt ammuntion out there which would be treated as handgun ammo. Similarly most submachine guns fire handgun ammo (the M231 notwithstanding which fires 5.56mm). So it is all based on the round not the firearm at all. You also cannot define it strictly by Caliber. .50 Action Express is a very different round than .50 BMG (the former being a very large handgun round and the latter being used in Sniper Rifles and Machineguns). This is why I have to go back to the actual Energy delivered by that Round. Thanks to the wonder of the internet all of this information is right at our fingertips. Before some Smart Aleck decides to chime in with the fact that barrel length does affect muzzle velocity. I will say that in the grand scheme of things it isn't enough to make that big of a difference. I have heard a 25-75 fps per inch estimation over or under 22" depending on caliber. Now this may seem like a lot but keep in mind that two "identical" barrels can easily vary by 100 fps. Take a 230gr .45 ACP Round. When fired from an M1911 the muzzle velocity is 830 fps. When fired from the M1A1 Thompson Submachinegun the muzzle velocity increases to 950 fps. If we plug this into our previous calculations we see that the difference is ~150 joules (477 vs. 625). While this seems significant they both fit in the 4-5 DC range so while you could increase the damage slightly if fired from a long gun, I wouldn't bother with it. I suppose you could put a small Aid on longer barrel weapons or add a Limitation to the round. But even by my uber-realistic way of thinking this is more trouble than it is worth. T
  8. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    I hear you. I am not a math wiz either. However, I am laying the groundwork for what is to come. See below for details. I remember your thread and that is one of the reasons that I wanted to address this. I did not include the "light armor piercing" because I am saving that for specific ammunition. I felt that if it were stated as a function of Soft Body Armor it would serve as a "House Rule" which could carry throughout the genre. What I plan on doing is exactly what you have eluded to. Creating charts for various ammunition. I am a bit of a nut for realism and I think that if players in DC games were presented with the various ammunition they could buy it would make it easier for everyone. That is exactly why I needed the granular detail in the first post. We'll see how far I get with it. In the next post I will delve into Armor and how it works vs. firearms. T
  9. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Just a quick FYI for all who didn't already know. A bullet's mass is measured in Grains which is what the "gr" stands for in the example above. Each grain equals about .065 Grams. As Zeropoint pointed out the Energy is equal to the Mass multiplied by the Velocity squared (for Joules the Mass must be in kilograms while the velocity is in meters per second) times 1/2. This means that the Velocity of an object has a larger factor on its energy. A baseball (.145kg) moving at 50mph (22.352 m/s) and hitting an object would have approximately 36 Joules of energy (~1d6). If that baseball were moving at 1000mph (447.04 m/s) it would have approximately 14,500 Joules of energy (6d6). Using these calculations we can easily determine that a 100mph fastball from a pitcher would have about 145 Joules and do about 2 1/2d6 of normal damage so you can see that doubling the Velocity essentially quadrupled its energy. On the other hand if we doubled the mass of the baseball (.29kg) and kept it moving at 50mph it would have about 72 Joules of energy (~1 1/2d6). This shows that the mass, when doubled, only doubles the energy. T
  10. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    Now on to the next point. How to address the relative lack of penetration of Handgun Rounds when compared with Rifle Rounds. My first thought was to adjust Armor Piercing and add it to Rifle Rounds. While I will probably do this anyway since I don't think that Armor Piercing adequately represents what it does. Meaning that I think that AP should be based on the attack rather than the Target's Defense. But I digress, on to the subject at hand. There are currently six levels of Body Armor (I, IIA, II, IIIA, III and IV) though technically Level I is no longer part of the standard. The first 4 levels are available in Soft Body Armor as follows. Level DEF Protects Against I 4 .22lr, .32, .38 IIA 7 .45ACP,.40S&W, lv9mm II 8 .357Mag, 10mm, hv9mm IIIA 9 .357SIG, .44Mag Given the damage that I posted previously the listed amounts will shut down all but the highest rolls and it is fairly easy to assume that the BODY damage that gets through is due to tissue trauma and internal organ damage. The GM should adjudicate that the round doesn't actually penetrate. The real problem becomes what to do about Rifle rounds which are much more effective against Soft Body Armor. More so than the little BODY damage that would get through would indicate. For this reason I think that as part of the Real Armor Limitation it should reflect that Soft Body Armor only has half of its stated value against High Velocity Rifle Rounds. This could also be represented by an additional Limitation but my feeling is that it is unwarranted. If the Rifle Round has Armor Piercing it would go against the modified Defense of the Armor. Of course doing things this way would also mean that Hard Body Armor would need to be bought to a level that could stop the Rifle Rounds outright. As I mentioned in another thread Hard Body Armor should be bought using Barrier rules which means that if none of the BODY gets through then no STUN is taken. We'll go into that on my next post... T
  11. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    I think that question was addressed with the statement "I know that this isn't really necessary". Surrealone, you of anyone should know that I tweak things just because that is what I do. Makes me feel better to have some pseudo-scientific way of explaining it.
  12. Deadman

    Guns and Ammo

    I have been doing some thinking on Guns and Ammunition lately. I've always liked the Dark Champions genre as I am something of a realism nut. I did some deep digging into the Hero System Firearms damage tables (in Dark Champions 5e incidentally). What I found was a more or less true correlation of Muzzle Energy to Damage Classes. Each Damage Class is supposed to represent double the Energy (in Joules) of the previous. This is fairly well represented in the table (with the occasional stray). I was thinking of a way to further break down Damage to add some flavor to Firearms Damage Classes. First I guess I should share my findings. Firearms Damage DC Joules Example Kdamage 1 50 BB Gun 1 pip 2 100 .22 Long Rifle 1/2d6 3 200 .380 ACP 1d6 4 400 9mm, .45 ACP 1d6+1 5 800 .357 Magnum 1 1/2d6 6 1600 .44 Magnum 2d6 7 3200 7.62 2d6+1 8 6400 .458 Win Magnum 2 1/2d6 9 12500 .50 BMG 3d6 Now honestly the chart above does a passable job for the most part. However, it is my opinion that the DCs could be broken down even more to differentiate damage. According to the chart a 9mm and a .45 ACP round would do the same damage (though I guess you could make an argument for the .45 getting a +1 Stun Multiple and the 9mm not). What I am proposing is really getting into the minutia of the issue but it will help define things a bit better IMHO. The standard breakdown for Killing Damage is well known among this community 5 Points for 1 Pip, 10 Points for 1/2d6, 15 Points for 1d6. Easy peasy right? Well here is what I am proposing. Killing Damage Breakout Points Kdamage Range 5 1 1 6 1 1 7 1 1 8 1d2 1-2 9 1d2 1-2 10 1d3 1-3 11 1d3 1-3 12 1d3 1-3 13 1d4 1-4 14 1d6-1 0-5 15 1d6 1-6 How this works should be pretty evident. If you wanted to buy Double Tap 230gr .45 ACP ammunition (which has 639 J of Energy) you could call that a 23 Point RKA meaning a 1d6+d2 attack (it isn't actually adding 2 points to the damage but 1-2, it's just easier to annotate that way). You would then apply all of your Limitations and Advantages. In that vein, Remington 240gr Steel Jacketed Hollow Points in .44 Magnum (1,005 J of Energy) would be a 1d6+d4 (28 Points) due to the lower Energy of that specific ammunition. Now, before you say it...I know that this isn't really necessary. My question is does it make sense and does it do what I am setting out to do (giving further distinction to Killing Damage)? Next up I will tackle the Handgun/Rifle penetration argument. T
  13. Deadman

    How to build...

    I didn't read all of the replies so if my idea mirrors anyone else it is unintentional. Why not use AoE: Line? You could then make it Non-Selective which would show that you have to make an actual attack roll on each person that it hits. With Indirect this would mean that you could start the line anywhere and have it go in any direction. You could also incorporate Explosion to show that the first character loses velocity over the course of his travel. A Limited Power Limitation could state that if the first character takes no Knockback (or not enough to reach the next in the line) that there is no damage. My $.02,
  14. Deadman

    Secret Agents of CROSS

    I really like the premise of this and was looking at the Kickstarter yesterday. Is there a reason that you aren't going to do Hero System conversions as others have done? Even as a stretch goal it might garner you more supporters (including myself). It sounds like it started as a Hero System campaign so I assume that you have the write-ups mostly done.
  15. I am looking for someone to both play and GM in a Dark Champions campaign. If I find the right person I would like to run a concurrent game with that person GMing my character while I GM his. I don't want a group, this would be two solo adventures and we would trade off. I am basing the campaign in Hudson City and while I want to use the 6th Ed. rules I also have a bunch of alternate rules and things I would like to incorporate along with that person's input. Some of you may be familiar with my Hudson City Chaos Campaign from way back. I have tons of characters, information and work done on this and would like to put them to use. It is a High Powered Heroic game set in a highly Cinematic setting. Characters do not have actual "Super Powers" but some Non-Powered Powers will be allowed. If you have GMing experience and are interested in doing a VTT/Google Hangout game once a week or so, PM me and we will see if we can work something out. You can check out my old site at http://www.deadmansdomain.com/campaigns.htm to get an idea of what I have in mind but keep in mind that it has not been updated for 6E. I use MapTool for the VTT and Google Hangouts for Verbal Communication. I have run several successful campaigns in this manner and it should work even better with only two people. Thanks, Tom
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