A character who's metagamey for a different game?

[dialNforNinja]

I don't know how many people here are familiar with "The Gamer," a Korean manwha that had a burst of fanfic popularity a few years back on a couple of other forums I follow, but a basic summary is that one day the MC wakes up with what amounts to an MMO interface complete with popup alerts, stats and inventory pages only he can see, and (most directly what I'm asking about) a Skill (in the IC terminology) that he can use to analyze objects or people he's looking at to see their name, level, title, a brief description of their attitude toward him, general situation and/or personality, current status effects, and stats, unless they're some large amount higher level than him. Now right off the bat HERO doesn't have levels, and that is its largest attraction for me to be honest, but I'm not worried about that part, there's any number of "convert D&D to HERO" guides that can be used in reverse to generate a stat block at need, and just about anything else he does that isn't adding to normal Stats is Life Support or playing with a Magic VPP/Multipower combo functionally the same as Witchcraft's setup in the example characters. My question is exactly how to model Observe using Hero.

Just slap Analyse onto normal sight? 15cp (including the half-price Discriminatory to get the prerequisite full effect rather than the normal inferior version) is cheap for a pretty damn powerful information gathering ability. Maybe require a Perception or Divination skill check as well? It just works or doesn't in the source material, with relative levels being the only determining factor, if modified by tthe level of the Skill. It's not a bad solution, but it doesn't feel like a good one and I don't have any better ideas, so that's why I'm asking here.

I only have Champions Complete, Champions Powers, Hero System 6e Martial Arts & Skills, and the two APGs, so if something similar is addressed in another book or an older edition please summarize instead of merely giving a page reference. Oh, and 5e Ultimate Vehicle, but that seems unlikely to be relevant. I'm a barely even a dilettante at this collectible textbook game of ours.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

You're looking at needing a bunch of different things. 

"Name, Title": Detect Biographical Information, Discriminatory, maybe Analyze. 

"Level": Detect Generic Level of Power, Discriminatory.  Also need a long conversation with the GM to figure out how that works.  Does giving a person a blaster increase their level?  What about power armor?  So on and so forth. 

"Brief description of their attitude toward him": This is Telepathy.  You don't do mind-reading via senses. 

"Current status effects": You'd have to define what a status effect is in HERO terms first. 

"Stats": Analyze on Detect Generic Level of Power, assuming your GM lets you buy this.  I wouldn't. 

 

But really, talk with your GM about this.  They're the one to speak with because they might have opinions and insights on the subject none of us here would.  And anything we say is useless if your GM disagrees. 

[dialNforNinja]

There is no GM, just musing about how to do strange things in the system. It would probably end up too number-crunchy and time consuming to use even if the GM was me anyway - the Stats visible wouldn't be Hero's plethora, more like the D&D-by-way-of-Final-Fantasy ripoff of your stereotypical grindfest trash MMO, which was why I mentioned using a conversion formula in reverse.

Level gets hairier the more I think about it, especially when the IC game system is based on MMOs that don't include gear in that at all and typically have the equivalent to Powers folded in unevenly. While supers games usually default to CP or an equipment pool bought with CP, I would be inclined to leave any gear and possibly some Powers out of the calculation, especially since one of the things that sometimes trips up Jee-Han (the manwha MC) is that people may be more capable or dangerous than their level suggests, or even thier stats if they have a particularly effective Skill.

Your suggestions in general make sense though - it seems I'm still thinking too much in terms of IC effect rather than rules mechanics when I try to do these things, which pretty much means coming at them backwards in HERO system.

[Ninja-Bear]

Take a look at Analyze: Style in the Martail Arts book. It should give some ideas how how to do “levels”, as in, is person Stronger or weaker than you.

[Tjack]

Wasn’t there a character in some villains book who after going insane knew that he was living in an RPG?   He had some set of powers that basically let him see the character sheet write-ups of everyone around him.  He was WAY too creepy for me to ever use in a game or I might remember him better.    
 Great concept,  freaked me out for a fairly long while after,  kudos to whoever created it. 

[Steve]

50 minutes ago, Tjack said:

Wasn’t there a character in some villains book who after going insane knew that he was living in an RPG?   He had some set of powers that basically let him see the character sheet write-ups of everyone around him.  He was WAY too creepy for me to ever use in a game or I might remember him better.    
 Great concept,  freaked me out for a fairly long while after,  kudos to whoever created it. 

 

I think he was in the 4th Edition sourcebook "Underworld Enemies" for Dark Champions but don't have it handy right now.

[IndianaJoe3]

5 hours ago, Tjack said:

Wasn’t there a character in some villains book who after going insane knew that he was living in an RPG?   He had some set of powers that basically let him see the character sheet write-ups of everyone around him.  He was WAY too creepy for me to ever use in a game or I might remember him better.    
 Great concept,  freaked me out for a fairly long while after,  kudos to whoever created it. 

 

It would be funny if Foxbat could actually do this.

[Tjack]

58 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

It would be funny if Foxbat could actually do this.

    No, he thinks he’s living in a comic book and that’s bad enough.
    This freak (I think his name may have actually been Freak) at a glance knew your secret ID, your deepest psych lim’s, the names  and locations of all your loved ones and all your physical vulnerabilities.

    And for the cherry on the sundae from hell, I think he could activate psych and physical lim’s with the same look.

[Scott Ruggels]

12 minutes ago, Tjack said:

    No, he thinks he’s living in a comic book and that’s bad enough.
    This freak (I think his name may have actually been Freak) at a glance knew your secret ID, your deepest psych lim’s, the names  and locations of all your loved ones and all your physical vulnerabilities.

    And for the cherry on the sundae from hell, I think he could activate psych and physical lim’s with the same look.

Gee I have the perfect character to take him down.  Heh...heh...heh...

[Tjack]

42 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Gee I have the perfect character to take him down.  Heh...heh...heh...

    Well now I’m curious, whatcha’ got?

[Scott Ruggels]

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

    Well now I’m curious, whatcha’ got?

This is a 6e Version of a 3- 4e character, one that appeared in the Hero Publication "Allies" He was also in Kazei 5, by Michael Surbrook. Last played actively 25 years ago, and updated to the times. Unfortunately I cannot post the HDC file, or the pretty HTML or PDF versions, as they are above the current file size limit. So text is what you get.

 

 

Felix 9 6E Stats..txt

Felix 9 6E Background.txt

[Tjack]

 

23 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

This is a 6e Version of a 3- 4e character, one that appeared in the Hero Publication "Allies" He was also in Kazei 5, by Michael Surbrook. Last played actively 25 years ago, and updated to the times. Unfortunately I cannot post the HDC file, or the pretty HTML or PDF versions, as they are above the current file size limit. So text is what you get.

 

 

Felix 9 6E Stats..txt 5.27 kB · 3 downloads Felix 9 6E Background.txt 27.48 kB · 2 downloads

     I’m admittedly a lousy number cruncher but I don’t see what in particular makes your guy proof against the “Freak” character as I described him.

     Now since this isn’t my creation so it’s not like I’m defending “my baby” and possibly I’m remembering him as a lot more powerful than he was.
     Unless the plan is to drill him in the head with a sniper rifle from a block away before he gets spotted, I just don’t see how Felix stands to do any better than any other hero type.

[Scott Ruggels]

Just now, Tjack said:

 

     I’m admittedly a lousy number cruncher but I don’t see what in particular makes your guy proof against the “Freak” character as I described him.

     Now since this isn’t my creation so it’s not like I’m defending “my baby” and possibly I’m remembering him as a lot more powerful than he was.
     Unless the plan is to drill him in the head with a sniper rifle from a block away before he gets spotted, I just don’t see how Felix stands to do any better than any other hero type.

 

That might be one  answer, but it's mostly how the situation is set up.  if Freak is an assigned target, then that would be it, pretty much.  With a sniper rifle, car bomb, ect., typical spy stuff.  If he's not a target, and Freak is an encounter, Felix does not have a lot of  serious complications other than a 2x's effect from sonics and Flashes. He's fairly though not entirely seamless. He's also a chew toy, in that in that you can land all sorts of hits and punches into him, with satisfying results, but he just keeps getting up again. (or did in the old 4e days, I haven't actually played him in a 6e game.)

[archer]

 

5 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

This is a 6e Version of a 3- 4e character, one that appeared in the Hero Publication "Allies" He was also in Kazei 5, by Michael Surbrook. Last played actively 25 years ago, and updated to the times. Unfortunately I cannot post the HDC file, or the pretty HTML or PDF versions, as they are above the current file size limit. So text is what you get.

 

 

Felix 9 6E Stats..txt 5.27 kB · 5 downloads

Felix 9 6E Background.txt 27.49 kB · 1 download

 

I have this almost irresistible compulsion to go through that background text to correct spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc.

[Scott Ruggels]

6 hours ago, archer said:

 

 

I have this almost irresistible compulsion to go through that background text to correct spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc.

Yeah, I know I type in a hurry and save it. I did try a pass at it before I postd it last night.

 

 

[steriaca]

Any thought of putting Felix 9 up onto the new wiki? I put Mister Wicked there.

[unclevlad]

Back to OP:   there are far too many things he's trying to pick up, that wouldn't be visible with just Sight.  

 

It might be feasible to do this with

 

a)  Detect Power Set:  Passive, Unusual Group (?), a class of things (powers), Discriminatory, Analyze, Range.  (This makes it next to impossible to Flash.  Sight Group is another option, but that can be Flashed.)  

b)  Skill:  Interpret Power Signature.  Int roll.

 

The Detect gives broad-stroke answers...tank, mobile striker, blaster, what kinds of movement powers.  Not that many details, the read's general.  The take here is, the Detect is hard to read in detail.  Ergo, there's the Interpret Power Signature skill.  Use the roll from the Detect as a complementary roll to this.  The better you make the roll, the more info you get.  This would include things such as:

 

--tough (high Def) but soft (low resistant)

--hard but brittle (high resistant Def but relatlvely low total Def)

--attack SFX, including things like the defenses to AVADs/NNDs

--vulnerabilities/susceptibilities

 

Note that exotic powers might be unrecognizable at first.  Summoners might be an example.  Mental powers might tend to read pretty similarly.  Yeah, a LOT of this is gonna be at GM discretion.

[dialNforNinja]

Powers don't show up at all with the Observe Skill I want to model - even most fanfics only had them detectable for people who "join the party" - those kind of things are assumed as class level features in the D&D/FInal Fantasy ripoff style paradigm of The Gamer's IC system. Sometimes that's implied to show up at high skill levels, but most fics don't last that long, and the original manwha is honestly kinda meh, with an infuriatingly stupid MC, so I only read the early part. Like i said in the thread title, IC his game mechanics are nothing like HERO.

 

What he gets is:

 

Name
Title (usually a job title or accomplishment; gives the character relevant bonuses like extra damage against undead from Zombie Slayer)
Character Level (if this is too much above the user, it and everything after is just question marks)

 

Health (derived from STR and END, recovery determined by END)
Mana (Like HP but with INT and WIS)

 

Strength
Endurance
Intelligence (as in "solve the math problem" or "invent a new spell," not "do the smart thing," because...)
Wisdom (making good decisions is WIS and WIS is Jee-Han's dump stat, since he stumbled into a Skill to replenish Mana)
Luck (would be very hairy to give a formula, but basically never has an explicit effect anyway, the more so since Jee-Han's plot armor could make the token kid in an action movie look like a popcorn mook. Supposedly affects critical hit and loot drop rates, and games of chance?)

 

I want to say there was a DEX stat as well, but I'm quite sure there was not and that's just my bias toward "power, finesse, and resistance" game design talking. These stats are linear.

 

"Status effects" that give various bonuses or penalties, like Well Rested, Easily Distracted, or Fire Resistant, (sort of like Titles in that respect but usually lesser and not things that anyone would really find notable in a "celebrity gossip" sense) along with the usual MMO buffs, debuffs, and HoTs/DoTs

 

Whether the character likes, dislikes, or has no strong opinion about you (I'm less sure this is even included after thinking about it more, or it may be based off a Wisdom+social Skill (if he had any, which on top of leaving WIS as his dump stat Jee-Han does not) check in fanfics I'm conflating with the canon, such as it was.)

 

And that's it, for characters. Objects just get a description, durability rating, and a bit on any special abilities or noteworthy historical events, if again they aren't too powerful to use Observe on. While it doesn't logically work as Sight by HERO terms, it is explicitly tied to looking at the subject and reading the popup window when used, so it absolutely can be Flashed as Sight, or for that matter blocked with a blindfold or if he can't give the verbal command.

Of course, this is the kind of detail I should have provided the first time around...