Lord Liaden Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 The essence of Roddenberry's vision wasn't explaining how society would eliminate poverty and bigotry; it was the optimism to believe that the human race would grow up enough to do it. wcw43921, Iuz the Evil and Ragitsu 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 As for the issue of replicator viability...considering how large the universe is, humanity can easily solve the "energy" part of the equation with sufficiently advanced technology. All we have to do is avoid NBC annihilation, accelerated climate change and asteroids bouncing out of bounds long enough to reach that level of development. wcw43921 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Ragitsu said: There hasn't been a single mention of Guinan. No matter your feelings on Goldberg, she played a damn fine bartender. There used to be a group of us that would dress is costume and go to the big nerdy movies together. We'd have dinner beforehand, play some trivia and other related games, and also have a costume contest. When the Star Trek reboot came out, among the other entrants, there was an Orion dancing girl wearing full-body paint, and the jangly bikini! My own costume was based on an old joke. I wore a sombrero and carried a baseball bat over each shoulder. I was... Hide contents The USS Enterprise. Another guy had me beat on the comedy front, though. He wore doctor's scrubs and a stethoscope, and also a big flat hat with dreadlocks. He was... Hide contents The Guinan-cologist. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Ragitsu said: Without some friction, you don't have a show. We don't see the ninety-nine point ninety-nine percent of the time interspecies relations are functioning smoothly. You are exactly right, and that is the point that the entire writers room made to Gene repeatedly. Even pointing out to him that friction between characters like Spock and McCoy made the original series as great as it was.It was only after he stepped back from the day to day overseeing in later seasons that the writing got better. The series with the most interpersonal interaction, Deep Space Nine was in fact the best in the bunch. But the basics of the perfect, moneyless, “more evolved” society were mandates from Gene in the very beginning of TOS. Spence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Tjack said: The Federation’s economy is based on two things. First is the assumption of a source of infinite free energy and the second is an infinite source of free goods (via replicator technology) Incorrect interpretation on both assumptions. First there was no assumption of infinite free energy. The Federation was extremely efficient with energy, but repeated episodes revolved around the need to acquire or protect energy resources. One example is the pergium in "Devil in the Dark". There are others involving Dilithuim which was rare can could not be replicated. The second assumption of an infinite source of free goods. You could replicate things as long as you had the requisite raw materials. This came up several times in Voyager and I remember the grumbling of having to eat "ration packs" because the replicator material packs were exhausted. For a civilization having infinite free energy and infinite free goods, Starfleet spent an awful lot of time and energy responding to emergency needs for critical materials on Federation planets, colonies and outposts. No, Starfleet ships, stations and outposts enjoy a highly localized apparent infinite free energy and goods due to their design and mission. Starfleet warfare relies extensively on energy based weapons and defense systems. Having the power generation systems to meet the insanely high requirements means the availability of "effectively infinite" for normal day to day uses. Starfleet ships are also the first responding search & rescue plus the major actors for disaster relief all in one package. Their resources and material stores are always stocked. But the Federation as a whole? Their various worlds/outposts constantly need assistance and relief. Not to mention the not inconsiderable number of independent traders and freighters operating in the Federation. In DS9 Sisco's romantic interest was a freighter captain that was emphatically "not Starfleet" who worried about meeting schedules and delivering cargoes. Ignoring the idea of freighters and cargoes for a civilization that can simply replicate anything, no one would run cargo in a war-zone without pressing needs, like a paycheck to keep the freighter operating and crew paid. Roddenberry vision may have been a money-less universe of plenty. But the actual one that appears on screen is not that. Starfleet may be that, but the Federation is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 Terry Nation (creator of the Daleks, who considered putting them in Star Trek) believed the ST Federation would inevitably become a horrific, corrupt dictatorship and enslave the galaxy. This was part of the premise of Blakes 7, a series he created for the BBC that has an American cult following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 24, 2020 Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 It's worth noting that Blake's 7 had a distinct influence on Farscape many years later. (See "Commandant Cleavage", et.al.) So...Federation => Peacekeepers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said: Terry Nation (creator of the Daleks, who considered putting them in Star Trek) believed the ST Federation would inevitably become a horrific, corrupt dictatorship and enslave the galaxy. This was part of the premise of Blakes 7, a series he created for the BBC that has an American cult following. There must have been a right-wing writer for Deep Space Nine: on that show, a Starfleet officer-turned-traitor basically calls The Federation worse than the Borg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 54 minutes ago, Ragitsu said: There must have been a right-wing writer for Deep Space Nine: on that show, a Starfleet officer-turned-traitor basically calls The Federation worse than the Borg. Ternaugh, Hermit and mattingly 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Iuz the Evil said: My first thought was: "What: no Coca-Cola?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 "And if you drink enough of it... you start to like it!" Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 On 9/24/2020 at 10:03 PM, Ragitsu said: My first thought was: "What: no Coca-Cola?" Coca-Cola probably went out of business in the Eugenics Wars, Colonel Green's reign, or during WWIII. Or maybe later after Earth abandoned a currency-based economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 How Star Trek: Picard explains Dune's unique take on sci-fi robots https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/dune-2020-star-trek-picard-ai-robots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 16 hours ago, archer said: Coca-Cola probably went out of business in the Eugenics Wars, Colonel Green's reign, or during WWIII. Or maybe later after Earth abandoned a currency-based economy. What you say is true, but I am sure someone preserved the recipe. In any case, featuring Coca-Cola on DS9 would have been a licensing issue and I am glad that regular televised Star Trek was exempt from product placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted September 28, 2020 Report Share Posted September 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ragitsu said: What you say is true, but I am sure someone preserved the recipe. In any case, featuring Coca-Cola on DS9 would have been a licensing issue and I am glad that regular televised Star Trek was exempt from product placement. Legend has it that the formula has been hidden in a vault at the Sun Trust Bank in downtown Atlanta since 1925. Maybe in the Star Trek timeline, the bank was taken out by a nuke. Or maybe, just maybe, that's how Colonel Green rose in the first place! A daring bank robbery gave him the secret formula for Coca-Cola and he used that to vault himself into power. My God, it's a story worthy of Pinky and the Brain! Matt the Bruins and Pariah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 59 minutes ago, archer said: Or maybe, just maybe, that's how Colonel Green rose in the first place! A daring bank robbery gave him the secret formula for Coca-Cola and he used that to vault himself into power. My God, it's a story worthy of Pinky and the Brain! They called him Green because he was really raking it in, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, archer said: Legend has it that the formula has been hidden in a vault at the Sun Trust Bank in downtown Atlanta since 1925. Maybe in the Star Trek timeline, the bank was taken out by a nuke. Or maybe, just maybe, that's how Colonel Green rose in the first place! A daring bank robbery gave him the secret formula for Coca-Cola and he used that to vault himself into power. My God, it's a story worthy of Pinky and the Brain! Are you pondering what I'm pondering? Spence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Pariah said: Are you pondering what I'm pondering? I think so Brain. But where are we going to get a spacesuit and 50 gallons of mustard on a Monday evening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, archer said: I think so Brain. But where are we going to get a spacesuit and 50 gallons of mustard on a Monday evening? Well, I know a Ferengi who can get it for you...if you have the latinum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 I don't think I'd want to live in a future without Coca-Cola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, massey said: I don't think I'd want to live in a future without Coca-Cola. Odds are good that Tom Paris located the recipe. Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ragitsu said: Odds are good that Tom Paris located the recipe. Probably has a copy of Fast Times at Ridgemont High as well. God bless that man. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 they could have just called it Cola without dealing with copyright issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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