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Sequels better than the original


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28 minutes ago, Logan.1179 said:

For example, one I see being debated right now: Aliens. Better than Alien? I say no, personally. 

Aliens is a different animal to Alien having a different director and concept. I like Aliens better than Alien but that is a personal choice.

 

The whole question might also be down to the viewer's bias.

 

Some would argue that Terminator 2 is better than The Terminator but I would disagree as I felt there was too much CGI in the film. I saw the film in America in a mostly deserted cinema and this might affect my liking of the film.

 

The Bride of Frankenstein is better than the original Frankenstein.

 

The Dark Knight has Heath Ledger's turn as the Joker. Outdoing Liam Neeson is some feat. So I would say this Batman sequel is better than the original

 

Superman II. This has the renegade Kryptonians battling Superman and set a standard for superpowered battles. It still holds up today.

 

The Bourne Ultimatum. This builds on the first film and has another level of deviousness as well as Jason travelling to Russia for a fight.

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49 minutes ago, death tribble said:

Aliens is a different animal to Alien having a different director and concept. I like Aliens better than Alien but that is a personal choice.

 

The whole question might also be down to the viewer's bias.

 

Some would argue that Terminator 2 is better than The Terminator but I would disagree as I felt there was too much CGI in the film. I saw the film in America in a mostly deserted cinema and this might affect my liking of the film.

 

The Bride of Frankenstein is better than the original Frankenstein.

 

The Dark Knight has Heath Ledger's turn as the Joker. Outdoing Liam Neeson is some feat. So I would say this Batman sequel is better than the original

 

Superman II. This has the renegade Kryptonians battling Superman and set a standard for superpowered battles. It still holds up today.

 

The Bourne Ultimatum. This builds on the first film and has another level of deviousness as well as Jason travelling to Russia for a fight.

 

T2 is an interesting one. I remember liking it more at the time.

 

Dark Knight I agree with. I don't know about Superman 2 though.

 

I'll have to see Bride of Frankenstein again. I can't speak to the Bourne movies, not my genre.

 

Another controversial one: is Crusade better than Raiders?

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2 hours ago, Pariah said:

Evil Dead 3: Army of Darkness

 

Almost as quotable as Holy Grail.  :)

 

 

2 hours ago, death tribble said:

Aliens is a different animal to Alien having a different director and concept. I like Aliens better than Alien but that is a personal choice.

 

The whole question might also be down to the viewer's bias.

 

Some would argue that Terminator 2 is better than The Terminator but I would disagree as I felt there was too much CGI in the film. I saw the film in America in a mostly deserted cinema and this might affect my liking of the film.

 

The Bride of Frankenstein is better than the original Frankenstein.

 

The Dark Knight has Heath Ledger's turn as the Joker. Outdoing Liam Neeson is some feat. So I would say this Batman sequel is better than the original

 

Superman II. This has the renegade Kryptonians battling Superman and set a standard for superpowered battles. It still holds up today.

 

The Bourne Ultimatum. This builds on the first film and has another level of deviousness as well as Jason travelling to Russia for a fight.

 

Agree with all of these except Superman 2.

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Winter Soldier is probably my favorite Marvel movie, much less being way better than The First Avenger

Endgame and Infinity War are better than the original Avengers IMO.

 

I liked X2 and original Spidey 2 (with Doc Ock) better than the originals.

 

The Road Warrior...and then even better Fury Road

 

I also like Rocky 2 better than the original...the Rocky movies should've stopped after that.  Although the one when he was an old man wasn't bad

 

The Color of Money was pretty great.

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1 hour ago, Logan.1179 said:

Dark Knight I agree with. I don't know about Superman 2 though.

 

Another controversial one: is Crusade better than Raiders?

Crusade is better than Temple certainly. And it has Sean Connery not playing the action star which works for me.

 

33 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Agree with all of these except Superman 2.

Re:- Superman 2. No Brando. And you don't have a clunky Deus Ex Machina in the shape of changing time to save Lois.

You also have Superman up against three opponents of similar power level but evil.

The film is more quotable than the original as many people here will testify due to my continual use of one line.

But mainly you have Sarah Douglas wearing black which is the ultimate end to the argument

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Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle (2017) is technically a sequel of the original 1995 version, although it is arguably more like a reboot.  That said, it was much better than the original in my opinion, Robin Williams not withstanding.  Haven't seen Jumanji: The Next Level (2019) yet, so I can't speak to that one.

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1 hour ago, Starlord said:

Winter Soldier is probably my favorite Marvel movie, much less being way better than The First Avenger

Endgame and Infinity War are better than the original Avengers IMO.

 

I liked X2 and original Spidey 2 (with Doc Ock) better than the originals.

 

The Road Warrior...and then even better Fury Road

 

I also like Rocky 2 better than the original...the Rocky movies should've stopped after that.  Although the one when he was an old man wasn't bad

 

The Color of Money was pretty great.

I was going to mention the spidey one, totally agree. Same with Road warrior. Not sure on the Rocky one, one of the best things about it is that he doesn't win.

The Color of Money is not better then The Hustler, and I know Newman was given an award for the movie, but truth was he was given it for all the other great roles he played, including Fast Eddie in the original. Course, when the original came out, would have been hard to beat Lancaster in Elmer Gantry.

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What about the Bond movies ?

Here I would say you have a problem as I do not believe that you can say that a change in the actor means you get a better movie. Rather if the actor stays in the role is the sequel they are in better than the original. So From Russia With Love is arguably better than Dr No. And The Man With the Golden Gun is better than Live and Let Die. Licence to Kill is better than Living Daylights. Tomorrow Never Dies is better than Goldeneye. The only one it does not work with is Daniel Craig as Quantum of Solace is not better than Casino Royale but Skyfall definitely is.

 

Also is there any opinion on the 'Road to' movies with Bing Crosby and Bob Hope ?

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Also what about the Man From Uncle films ?

Technically they are just the TV series two parters made into films for cinema release or TV.

The first one is the pilot so anything thereafter should be better as you have more money and more experience in making the show so yes in my less than humble opinion I would say that at least the first sequels are better, Certainly this is true of The Spy With My Face, One Spy Too Many, One of Our Spies is Missing and The Helicopter Spies. There are arguments against a couple of the others.

 

But there are films where it does not work. The Magnificent Seven sequel films spring to mind. And Jaws 2

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3 hours ago, death tribble said:

What about the Bond movies ?

Here I would say you have a problem as I do not believe that you can say that a change in the actor means you get a better movie. Rather if the actor stays in the role is the sequel they are in better than the original. So From Russia With Love is arguably better than Dr No. And The Man With the Golden Gun is better than Live and Let Die. Licence to Kill is better than Living Daylights. Tomorrow Never Dies is better than Goldeneye. The only one it does not work with is Daniel Craig as Quantum of Solace is not better than Casino Royale but Skyfall definitely is.

 

Also is there any opinion on the 'Road to' movies with Bing Crosby and Bob Hope ?

Nah I liked Living Daylights much better

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4 hours ago, death tribble said:

What about the Bond movies ?

Here I would say you have a problem as I do not believe that you can say that a change in the actor means you get a better movie. Rather if the actor stays in the role is the sequel they are in better than the original. So From Russia With Love is arguably better than Dr No. And The Man With the Golden Gun is better than Live and Let Die. Licence to Kill is better than Living Daylights. Tomorrow Never Dies is better than Goldeneye. The only one it does not work with is Daniel Craig as Quantum of Solace is not better than Casino Royale but Skyfall definitely is.

Live and Let Die is very problematic. The Fleming novel is very racist, and the movie only mildly less so. There are jokes about "Whiteface in Harlem", New Orleans funeral parades which gain corpses mid-march, and so on. The worst part is that it played into the stereotype of the corrupt African/Carribean dictator and made it look like that was the defalut whenever black people are put in charge of a country. The racist sherrif in the boat chase was portrayed as a buffoon, but he wasn't really funny.

 

The Man with the Golden Gun, on the other hand, is comedy gold. It was written to be funny, and it worked. Roger Moore found the concept of a secret agent so secret that everybody knew who he was incredibly funny, and everyone played into it (Bernard Lee's slow-burn take as an exasperated M is hilarious). The rest of Moore's run toned down the comedy (and For Your Eyes Only is surprisingly dark for am early '80s Bond film).

 

License to Kill, on the other hand, is cruelly underrated. The greatest weapon of Timothy Dalton's Bond is his brain.  The whole movie is about loyalty -- Bond and Q both put friendship over orders, while the villainous drug lord finds everyone around him becoming more and more disloyal as the result of Bond's masterful mind games.

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5 hours ago, death tribble said:

Also what about the Man From Uncle films ?

Technically they are just the TV series two parters made into films for cinema release or TV.

The first one is the pilot so anything thereafter should be better as you have more money and more experience in making the show so yes in my less than humble opinion I would say that at least the first sequels are better, Certainly this is true of The Spy With My Face, One Spy Too Many, One of Our Spies is Missing and The Helicopter Spies. There are arguments against a couple of the others.

 

But there are films where it does not work. The Magnificent Seven sequel films spring to mind. And Jaws 2

 

I hate to break this to you, but a movie purporting to be The Man from UNCLE was done in 2015.

 

 

 

(It's pretty bad.)

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I did not mention the 2015 Man From Uncle film as it is not a sequel. Reboot maybe.

And Old Man is dead on with the Saint film with Val Kilmer.

Similarly Steve Martin's version of Sgt Bilko which reminds me he also did a number on the Pink Panther films.

 

So The Pink Panther introduced Inspector Clouseau who returned for A Shot in the Dark which is better. Other films followed in the series but the first two are the best.

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