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Quantum from Dragon Magazine #111, 1986 by George MacDonald


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Back in 1986, Dragon Magazine number 111 printed an article by George MacDonald called "Quantum, Power and Super-Power in the Champions Game." This article detailed the subject of making a character at different levels of "power" for your Champions game.

 

As an example George created a character named Quantum (no relation to the mutant hero in the BBB). Quantum is a woman who gained super powers thanks to an accident with a device created by Doctor Destroyer (read the article for details). George presented tables of Quantum's stats. She ranged in five levels from a starter heroine, to a goddess of destruction who took on alien battle fleets.

 

Presented here are full write ups for all five versions of Quantum, based on George's tables, in easy to use character sheets, updated to 4th edition rules.

 

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/QUANTUM1.pdf (300+ points)

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/QUANTUM2.pdf (600+ points)

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/QUANTUM3.pdf (900+ points)

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/QUANTUM4.pdf (1300 points)

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/QUANTUM5.pdf (1600+ points)

 

 

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Getting back to Quantum...   I very much enjoyed the article and squirreled away the idea of Quantum Levels to use later. And did: Devil's Advocates member Shadowfire, in Creatures of the Ni

As for simulating radically different power levels, one of my friends worked out a "scaling" system for Hero. (I think he adapted an idea from DC HEROES, but I've never seen that game.) Characters of

Both Viper and Until agents were in the original book.   Enemies I included GENOCIDE agents.   The authors of Enemies I were the old school Hero Games people. Going through the

HA!

 

Nice, but I was specifically curious about the Hulk's tendency to be "ultimate."  HERO, I believe we have all agreed at some point or other, doesn't do that well.  To have "infinite strength" in Champions, one either has to get GM approval to buy right up to the cap-- or possibly over-- and then handwave it as "infinite."

 

I find myself curious to see what Steve's proposed work-around was.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Different Worlds did a Hulk write-up once, but it was for Super World.

 

I'd rather like to see a Hulk for Champions.  :D

 

 

Our long-absent forum colleague and Hero Games author, Michael Surbrook, has several incarnations of the Hulk statted for 5E Hero on his magnificent website, Surbrook's Stuff.

 

http://www.devermore.com/surbrook/adaptationscomic/marvel/hulk.html

 

http://www.devermore.com/surbrook/adaptationscomic/marvel/joe_fixit.html

 

http://www.devermore.com/surbrook/adaptationscomic/marvel/hulk_banner.html

 

http://www.devermore.com/surbrook/adaptationscomic/marvel/hulk_world-breaker.html

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I remember that issue.  They statted out Supergirl for Mayfair's DC Heroes, Phoenix for TSR's Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP) and Maxima for Villains & Vigilantes.  Basically a whole issue of really powerful superwomen.  I remember the campaign suggestion in the article for Supergirl that she could be used to train a group of novices--i.e. the PCs--in the ways of superheroics, swooping in to save the day if they got in over their heads.

 

I also remember Maxima (the V&V character) as having over 14,000 Hit Points.  Fourteen Thousand.  There are ancient dragons that don't have that many.  

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10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Different Worlds did a Hulk write-up once, but it was for Super World.

 

I'd rather like to see a Hulk for Champions.  :D

 

 

This is the version of the Hulk I made for the 250 Point Project. It's pretty powerful for the limits I worked under. 

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/HULK.pdf

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6 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

I remember that issue.  They statted out Supergirl for Mayfair's DC Heroes, Phoenix for TSR's Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP) and Maxima for Villains & Vigilantes.  Basically a whole issue of really powerful superwomen.  I remember the campaign suggestion in the article for Supergirl that she could be used to train a group of novices--i.e. the PCs--in the ways of superheroics, swooping in to save the day if they got in over their heads.

 

I also remember Maxima (the V&V character) as having over 14,000 Hit Points.  Fourteen Thousand.  There are ancient dragons that don't have that many.  

 

Here is that Maxima converted to Hero 4th edition rules using the standard conversion between the two systems. 

http://mattcave.mypressonline.com/PDFs/MAXIMA.pdf

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18 hours ago, DusterBoy said:

How does Maxima have 13 Spd when the chart only goes up to 12? Or did things change for FRED?

 

18 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

Sixth Edition Vol. 1, pg. 45--"SPD above 12 only serves to help the character resist Drain SPDs and similar attacks; it doesn't allow the character to have more than 12 Phases or take more Actions in a Turn."

 

Hope that helps.

 

I attribute that more to the challenge of using a fixed, formulaic model to convert characters from very different game systems.  I generally prefer to grasp the system, understand that the character in question does pretty low damage, kind of average damage or super-high damage; is easy or hard to hit; is easy or hard to KO; moves really fast or really slow; etc., then translate that into the character I need for my Hero game.

 

A lot of V&V characters do 1d6 or 1d8 damage, or have no significant defenses, or have normal human accuracy and Speed.  That works fine in V&V.  Moving them to Hero with a 3 DC attack, defenses of 5/5 non-resistant or OCV and DCV of 4, and SPD 2 does not work so fine in Hero.  Nor does statting them out with OCV/DCV 37, SPD 15, defenses of 75/75 or 48d6 damage

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APG1 [optional] -- SPDs of 13 and higher grant a character extra Phases in certain Segments — the same Segments that SPDs 1-12 grant. In other words, distribute the remaining actions throughout the Turn according to the standard Speed Chart — just subtract 12 from the character’s SPD to figure out which Segments he gets an extra Phase in. For example, SPD 18 gets one Phase in Segments 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11, and two Phases in Segments 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 — the Phases that SPD 6 (18 minus 12) gets. Thus, a character with SPD 24 would get two Phases every Segment. In the event a character’s SPD exceeds 24, apply the same rule, giving the character three, four, or more Phases in some Segments.

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On 9/16/2020 at 3:13 PM, DusterBoy said:

How does Maxima have 13 Spd when the chart only goes up to 12? Or did things change for FRED?

 

It always went as high as you wanted. 

 

That is, no rules explicitly forbade it for twenty years or so until Steve decided "it means this."

 

(though you have to wonder:  Did it always?  Or was his judgement guided by the fact that the chart ends there?)

 

I don't know that everyone ever tried it, but I am acquainted with several people who all _tried_ making speedsters that way at least once, back when we were all unfamiliar with how things could be defined by starting with the game effect we were after, etc, etc- you know: speedster tricks. 

 

Not only is it ungodly expensive, you don't really have enough points left over to put "reduced END" on anything.... 

 

Your one-trick speedster fizzles in a glorious but very brief explosion of activity.  :(

 

I mean, nothing else had caps; a lot of didn't see any reason for SPD to have a cap, either.  The STR chart stopped at 100, but we figured that decision was more about formatting the book and the fact that 100 was pretty much further than anyone but the Hulk would ever go.  It stood to our reasoning that the Flash would probably go off the speed chart, too. 

 

:rofl:

 

 

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I recall the furore when the Adventurers Club print magazine published Sensor, who had a 12 SPD.  "That's only there for completeness - no one should ever have a SPD that high!!"

 

Of course, if the typical Brick in your game has a SPD of 8, making Speedsters within a 12 point range is pretty tough.

 

OTOH, if the game had originally pegged slow Bricks at 2 SPD (maybe DEX 8-10 and CV 3), average Supers at 3 - 4 (and DEX 11-14; CV 4-5) and really fast characters at SPD 5 (DEX 17-20; CV 6-7), maybe an occasional solo mega-villain at 6-7 (DEX 23-26; CV 8-9), the SPD, DEX and CV ranges would look very different today.  But for some reason, it was OK for a jock Super to have 10 INT and 12 EGO, and a Superscientist to have an STR of 8-10, but a rock monster had to have a DEX of 18, CV 6 and a SPD of 4.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I guess we all took our cues from the published example characters, with the stats their creators considered appropriate for their own games. Eventually they became self-perpetuating standards.

 

Ha! 

 

You are absolutely right, of course, but it's funny that you say this when I just addressed that very same thing elsewhere last night! 

 

So....  Do great minds think alike, or do soft minds run together? 

 

(for what it's worth, I always thout it made more sense the great minds like a think....    ;)    ) 

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