Time Limit, constant, persistent, etc.

[eepjr24]

I have been working with Time Limit a decent bit recently on various fantasy type powers. Time Limit on a Constant power or an Instant Power with Duration Advantage: Constant is an advantage that essentially makes a power Persistent for a limited time period. As noted on 6E1, 346, making a power Persistent is a +1/4 advantage and even the lowest Extra Phase value for Time Limit is the same as that, so GM's may wish to cap it there. I'll probably be falling into that later camp, but that's not my question here.

 

The primary advantage granted by Persistent is to keep the power going even if the character is knocked out (or runs out of Endurance if it is required to maintain it). So in cases where the power does not cost END to maintain and the power SHOULD turn off when the character is unconscious... is there an equivalent limitation that adds time as a third method of turning off the power? 

 

Specific Example:

Spell of Burning Defense

1d6+1 RKA vs ED; 
Armor Piercing (+.25), Area of Effect: Personal Surface (+.25), Constant (+.5), Costs End Only to Activate (+.25); [45 AP]
OAF: Spell Focus (-1), 3x End Cost (-.5); [18 RP] 

 

As written, the power above would work until the user was knocked out, power was dispelled or some other reasonable condition for ending was met (say immersing in water). Best case would be someone knows of a rule book I have missed where there is a similar limitation that would have a nice chart that lays out limitation values. The ones under Persistent powers seem too high and the suggestion in APG 1 of a blanket -1/4 seems too low. Anyone have another place to look?

 

- E

[Thia Halmades]

Good morning (relatively speaking).

 

This is a rules question hotline; normally I would cite the text and provide some explanation, however your question required some unpacking and clarification first. That said, this is not a discussion thread, I’m just working to get to your question and provide sufficient clarity that the answer provided speaks to your question and makes sense:

 

Based on the question as written, “is there an equivalent limitation that adds time as a third method of turning off the power?” Broadly, this is Time Limit. You also state in your post Persistent is +1/4, which is true, except Persistent can only be applied effectively as a modifier to Constant, +1/2, so it’s minimum cost is +3/4 overall. 

 

Next, “Constant is an advantage that makes a power Persistent for a limited time period.” Constant removes an attack roll, a power activation roll, or otherwise allows maintaining an Instant power between segments (although in the case of attack powers it will only deal damage on the user’s phase), except as a damage shield, etc. Persistent, for an additional .25, means that the power remains active despite normal cancelation conditions, such as getting knocked out, so long as there is END to pay for it and/or it costs 0 END, or a Charge has duration left in the tank (another way to approach this depending on special effect).  Inherent, the third “form” of this, is the one that makes a power innate to a character.

 

The primary ways of managing duration are the ones you mentioned; moving Instant to Constant, Constant (on, no roll to maintain) to Persistent (Constant, modified to be on even if unconscious) Persistent to Inherent (integral to a character) or Time Limit, either as an advantage to set a specific duration or a limitation to alter it down. 

 

Please let me know if that answers your question. If not, or if you’re seeking a more in depth discussion around how other GMs manage this or player opinion, I encourage you to post it to the Hero System Discussion forum.

[eepjr24]

Thanks, Thia. I am aware of all the rules you outline and my example includes Constant as an advantage. They specific question would be: If I do not wish the power to be persistent or persistent like (ala Time Limit or Continuing Charges), is there another set of limitations that provide similar functionality but do not stay on when the user is knocked out?

 

I realize as the GM I can hand wave this or go with Continuing Charges with a "I get stunned or KO'd" as a stop condition for the power. I suspect I already know the answer and that there is no other standard rule for doing what I am after. And that's fine, I have at least 3 ways to hand wave around it as a GM, just checking to see if another herophile found an obscure rule that I was missing. If nothing else, if someone else comes looking for an answer they will also see this. 😃

 

- E

[Thia Halmades]

Hey E;

 

I’m happy to help. What you’re describing is Constant (+1/2), which converts an Instant power to a maintained power until/unless interrupted. Generally, all powers behave that way unless they are purchased to anticipate that eventuality. For instance, let’s take the classic D&D spell Agannazar’s Scorcher, which is a constant, time limited spell; cast it, it stays trained on the target, and burns. A lot. In HERO, this would be modeled as Constant, and if the caster is KO’d, the spell ends. What persistent does is keep the fire roaring even -if- the caster is dropped like a sack of rocks. If you just want the thing to end because they got gob-smacked, that’s Constant.

 

Does that answer the question?

[Killer Shrike]

> If I do not wish the power to be persistent or persistent like (ala Time Limit or Continuing Charges), is there another set of limitations that provide similar functionality but do not stay on when the user is knocked out?

 

I don't want to veer into a _rules discussion_ (if you were to post a related item in the discussion forum, I would try to find time to engage there), but to answer the rules question as clarified in your second post there are a couple of other rules options that come to mind, depending on the nuance of what is being modeled. You stipulate "limitation" in your question but I think you mean "modifier" as in many cases such as Instant powers extending duration is generally considered an advantage while shortening the duration of a constant power is generally a limitation and many of the modifiers that affect duration scale accordingly with the ability to be either an advantage or a limitation depending upon what they are applied to, etc. 

 

The Damage Over Time modifier offers a mechanic for a controlled incremental application of effect with a well defined duration. 

 

The Trigger modifier also offers fine control over activating conditions and expiration.