new GM player help

[cbat007]

Ok so i just picked this game up and im learning it i have a player's idea i think i know how to impliment it and i think it could be awesome, maybe powerful however i feel it can be bound in a reasonable way;

Player's idea - A character who can affect the world on the quantum level and make reality completely different around him; i.e. "there is a wall in front of us" and a wall would appear, or "That is a gun turret platform" and a nearby tree may become a shooters nest they can use. The player says that rality doesnt like this so depending on the length he "holds" the reality his way or the scope of it there could be backlash to him.

 

My initial idea - The transform power has the caviate to create stuff out of nothing, i.e the wall idea, but also could turn the tree into a watchpost for them; so would the player take two uses of that power; one being the create stuff, the other alter stuff; anything into anything with a limiter that he couldnt target other creatures;

Next -  What would this mean and what rolls may it imply? like i saw a roll for the wall idea and based on how good the roll is they would be granted cover to a degree for a short while.

Any thoughts? as well as any help for a new GM would be helpfull, still learning combat but i got the idea of the game down!

Thanks!

[Jhamin]

It's easy to get lost in the special effects of a power and try to buy what the power is doing instead of buying the end result you want.  In this cast I think you are getting stuck on the character 'changing' things so you want to buy a transform.  That does make a certain sense, but transform isn't meant to work that way.  It's more about the change being whats important (like a enemy into a frog) and not as a way to make yourself guns when you need them.

 

In Hero System, you need to buy what you can do, not how you do it.  If you want a wall, you buy the barrier power.  If you want to shoot someone you buy blast.  (If you want guns to pop up "over there" and shoot your enemies you buy blast with the Indirect advantage).

 

Once you have a list of what you want to be able to do, you either buy all the powers or your put them into a power framework.  If the character can do "anything" but really only does 4-8 things on the regular you want a multipower.

If they really can do anything they can imagine, you buy a variable power pool big enough to buy all the powers they are thinking of.  This will get expensive, and may not be a good move for a new player.  (Nite Owl or Silk Spectre are much easier characters to play than Dr. Manhatten.  How do you fit "build a city on Mars" into a Variable Power Pool?  There are several ways actually, but if you all stop the game to spend 45min figuring it out it's not  a fun power)

[IndianaJoe3]

6 hours ago, cbat007 said:

Player's idea - A character who can affect the world on the quantum level and make reality completely different around him; i.e. "there is a wall in front of us" and a wall would appear, or "That is a gun turret platform" and a nearby tree may become a shooters nest they can use. The player says that rality doesnt like this so depending on the length he "holds" the reality his way or the scope of it there could be backlash to him.

 

You might want to think of a set of effects that he will use often, and work from there. Creating a wall or a shooting platform would be Barrier. A gun would be Blast (possibly with Variable SFX or Variable Advantage, to represent creating different guns). Ropes that tie enemies up would be an Entangle. Think about how the character will use the power, and buy abilities based on those uses.

[Sveta8]

13 hours ago, cbat007 said:

Player's idea - A character who can affect the world on the quantum level and make reality completely different around him; i.e. "there is a wall in front of us" and a wall would appear, or "That is a gun turret platform" and a nearby tree may become a shooters nest they can use. The player says that rality doesnt like this so depending on the length he "holds" the reality his way or the scope of it there could be backlash to him.

 

My recommendation is to narrow down what the player wants to try and do a bit more. Simply effecting the world on the quantum level and changing reality is... broad. Very broad. Worse yet, it's not the sort of broad request that the game handles well. "I want to be big," "I want to shoot fire from my hands," "I want to be as strong as a tank." All of those are very broad, and can be handled any number of ways. So too can your request.

Manipulating reality at a quantum level... As far as science jargon goes, means nothing. And unfortunately, in comic science jargon, it is also unhelpfully broad. Anything from Matter Creation to Time Travel to Teleportation to Entanglement. So the SFX, Quantum Manipulation, isn't helping narrow down the want.

The, "Make Reality Completely Different" is also heedlessly broad. Does that mean they can simply Slip through the ground with Tunneling? How about making Objects disappear and reappear with Transform? Or just having people become wrapped up in space, and thrown elsewhere with Teleport? Or maybe simply solidifying space as a Barrier, or Entangle. Or Transmute a wall into a cannon with Blast/Transform? 

Narrow the scope. Figure out what the player is trying to do with the character. A Reality Warper is a a tried and true concept in Comics, but very... expensive and irritating in HERO. A Variable Power Pool is what it sounds like you are trying to describe though.

Reality biting back at them is simple to do though. That's Side Effects for a basic Damage Tick. It even already has No Defense Applies. 

[Ninja-Bear]

@cbat007, I like your player’s idea. Now since this is your first time GM’ing, I’m going to assume it’s his first time playing Champions. So let’s start the build simple for him and you and tell him that once you get more of a handle with the system, the character can be rebuilt.  So let’s build 2 Powers to start.  Gun Platform. So let’s say Blast (RKA if you want Killing Damage). We’ll add Indirect Advantage because it’s away from the character. Since he can change things at the quantum level you could also make it variable sfx. When you get more comfortable, variable advantage is a good choice but isn’t necessary right now.  Barrier is simpler because all you really need to figure out is what level of protection you want and you can say that after X amount of time, it reverts back to normal. One question of each power is “do I need a focus” . Since you’re changing things at the quantum level, how can you be deprived of any focus? But (especially in Gun Platform), the Power could be attacked directly so I can see Physical Manifestation added. Hope this helps!

[steriaca]

The reality bubble power is extremely complicated for even well seasoned players and game masters. It would be a better idea to encourage him to play a more standard character, like a Brick.

 

The Brick is a good starting character. At the most basic, you only have high strength and defences.

 

But that is up to the player and game master.

[cbat007]

Thanks everyone for the advice; i mentioned to the player the possibility of just using the variable power pool and putting most of their points into it; 

 

But the transform power can bring things into being, if they wanted to bring a wall in how would that be handled, i mean it could just be the barrior power i understand that but they could also just pt a wall somewhere would that act different?

and ya we are all new to this game however, this player has had ths idea from his favorite book serise -  the amber series - where like in the book changing shadows as they walk and a hill becoms flat and a forest becoms a town or so on; would this be possible to do here? i think the variable power pool and a barior for a wall and so on could work; but this player has been trying to make this charactor idea in every game and its difficult to portray.

Thanks for all the help everyone so far!

 

@steriaca @Ninja-Bear @Sveta8 @IndianaJoe3 @Jhamin

[Mr. R]

Those shadows are actually different dimensions, so that is basically dimensional movement with a Gestures (walking) limitation.  

 

OK I am going to give you some hard advice.  Start simple.  

Your friend, though he has a cool concept, is also giving you a concept that requires a good knowledge of the rules.  I have been playing and GMing for years and would only trust this concept to a trusted gamer who I knew could 1) play it and 2) Keep himself in check so as to not overshadow the other players.  

 

Ask him for a list of about five powers/effect that he wants and start there.  As you become better versed in the game, you can add other abilities, get him a small VPP to simulate small changes.  

 

Also unless you want dimension hopping to be a feature of you game, I would ask if that is really a facet he wants.

 

To help you get started I'll make a List of thing he might want and what I would recommend:

Gun Platform   EB Indirect  Yes, he'll need an offence

Wall                   Barrier or Force Wall  Nice for group defense

Walk thru Shadow       Teleport  Yes, need movement

Personal Sheild   Force Field   Needed because sometimes a Wall is not enough, or tour in HTH

Reach into my pocket to pull out a weapon   Can be a gun, sword, staff.  Just define it first because unless you spend EP you can't change it.  I would make two, one for HTH and one for ranged.  

 

So there we have a PC who can tport, call up ranged support, can provide group defense and is capable if attacked in HTH!

[Ninja-Bear]

@cbat007 the problem Variable Power Pool (VPP) which I didn’t mention earlier is that you still have to write up the Powers that are in the VPP.  So...for right now I’d suggest just creating said powers first.  As to the move through shadows where hills become flat and woods become towns. It can be done with GM permission. It’s called Extra Dimensional Movement. You just happen to go to the dimension where instead of a forest everything is the same except now there is a town. Just remember though that books and other media are great for inspiration but not everything translates well for gaming.

[Greywind]

VPP by their very nature are not new GM/player friendly items.

[Beast]

for me I would help the player pre-build all the powers in the VPP if you going to allow it(and build alot 20 to 30 different powers to start with and go from there)

[cbat007]

OK thanks everyone im sure we can figure that out; 

side note - any general GM tips; how do i create villains and how do i balance them; what does a normal henchman look like; how do i run a session?

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, cbat007 said:

side note - any general GM tips; how do i create villains and how do i balance them; what does a normal henchman look like; how do i run a session?
 

Agents should be 1 hit wonders
and cause 5-10 stun each if they hit

5-6 for a squad that gangs up on a single hero (for each hero or insert 1 capable villain who can go toe toe with 1 hero)
the secret of using agents is to when possible is to coordinate their attacks to daze the hero or play the dumb if you want the heroes to win
the agents should be hitting on a 9/10 or less vs their average DCV

IMHO

[Ninja-Bear]

@cbat007the great thing about hero is that since mechanics is divorced from sfx, you can steal and modify existing write ups! Also a tip I wanted to point out is that when you start to design a power, when you look at the Base power l, pay attention to the game information that’s listed.  It describes all that you get for the staring cost of said power. Then you choose advantages and limitations that then change the nature of the power to the vision you want.

[Mr. R]

I go with the following matrix 

 

50 (65)  Active points in a power (max points in advantages allowed)  This means 10 d6 attack with 1/2 end  OR 8 d6 with explosive OR 6 d6 NND etc.  

25/25 (total 50)  Max PD/ED  Note powers like Damage Reduction take off from this total, so 25% PD and ED dam red is 30 points so reduce this to 10/10.  Don't worry about adding resistance as this assumes some damage resist

21 (OCV 10)  This is dex and possible skill levels

5   Average Spd

 

Check the villains according to these benchmarks  Example:

Str 60   Dex 18  (+2 Skill Levels)   Pd 30 Ed 30   SPD 4      So +10 to damage   -10 to OCV   +10 to Def   -10 to SPD   Total =0    This should be what you do for all characters  as long as they balance out to zero and you PCs are built to this benchmark,  your good.  Also as the campaign progresses you can add to all of them.

 

So lets look at a villain.  We'll call her Rainbow Archer

Attacks 12 d6   Dex 30 (+4 Skill levels)  Pd 10 Ed 10   Spd 6    so +10 dam   +30 to OCV  -30 to def   +10 to SPD   Total = +20   She is very much superior to your heroes.  She hits fast, often and hard.  She's not unbeatable, but play to her strengths and she'll rip you team a few new ones.

 

If you have a villain that is like +10 in all categories, then he can probably take on at least half your team all alone.  If you have +20 then he is a Mastermind level villain who can solo a team.

 

For agents.. Well like above they are glass cannons.  Example

Attack 10 d6  Dex 15 (+2 Skill)  Pd 15  Ed 15  Spd 3    so +0 dam   -20 OCV  -30 to Def  -20 Spd  Total = -70   Yeah  5 agents per hero gives them numbers, but as one hero said "Oh look, agents!  Crunch all you want, they'll make more!"  

 

It is a bit time consuming, but it works!  At least for me!

[Ninja-Bear]

@cbat007 another trick I use is mock battles. Since your unfamiliar with Hero system playing super versus super may not seem that impressive. What I suggest is to take one of the sample heroes or villain in CC and grab either normal or skilled normals throw give them a sample weapon and armor then FIGHT!  I do this even now with rules that I’m not familiar with. I think you get a better feeling of things once the dice start rolling. 

[Tech]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:22 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

@cbat007 another trick I use is mock battles. Since your unfamiliar with Hero system playing super versus super may not seem that impressive. What I suggest is to take one of the sample heroes or villain in CC and grab either normal or skilled normals throw give them a sample weapon and armor then FIGHT!  I do this even now with rules that I’m not familiar with. I think you get a better feeling of things once the dice start rolling. 

 

What I did when I started totally fresh (many many years ago) is everyone made their characters. Then I told them - in advance - that the next 2 episodes will be ZERO experience. The Heroes will stop a simple bank robbery. We will do combat slowly and help everyone get used to the game. The rest comes with time. After those two ZERO xp games, they were itching for a real episode and it worked well.

[phydaux]

Only read about half the OP.   Your player wants a Variable Power Pool. 

 

A VPP is a power framework that has been a part of the game since around 3rd edition.  IMO you shouldn't let him have one.  Not because it's overpowered (although right/wrong hands it totally is).  Because it's a logistical/rules nightmare that will slow your play sessions to a dead crawl, and suck every last iota of fun out of the room.

 

As a GM I only allow VERY experienced players to buy a VPP, and even then I make then write out a "spell book" ahead of time with every power they think they might ever possibly need, its limitations, it's active points cost, and it's real cost.  But this doesn't ever happen because, in my experience, it's only lazy players who don't want to bother learning the rules or adhering to genera who ever want to a VPP because it lets them set the rulebook aside and say "Well, my character can do anything, so he does this..."

[cbat007]

Secondary Question;

When making villains, do complications matter much? i enjoy the flavor but how offten are they ever used? besides maybe a vulerability

[Ninja-Bear]

34 minutes ago, cbat007 said:

Secondary Question;

When making villains, do complications matter much? i enjoy the flavor but how offten are they ever used? besides maybe a vulerability

Good question. This is why when you see older stuff they had a Villain Bonus to cover Disadvantage costs. So go ahead and choose the Complications that you want in play and or seem fitting.  But in the short answer it’s not as critical as it is to the Heroes.