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So I was building a Mk I Justice Department Lawgiver and when I came to design the 'HotShot' (heat seeker) round I drew a blank. At first an Uncontrolled Continuous Attack seemed to be the way to go but that works in exactly the  opposite way to what I'm after. In other words, once you hit it carries on dealing damage for whatever duration you've set. But it has to *hit*.

By contrast, a heat seeker/homing missile can miss, but will keep re-trying (for whatever period you've set) until it hits. Then it's spent.

 

Saw some discussion on [url=https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/58614-missile-and-homing-missile/]this[/url] thread with the beginnings of a 'homing' advantage,  but that's a while back now. 

 

Am I missing something somewhere or is a house rule advantage still the fix?

 

 

 

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Two solutions come to mind. The first is that the "heat seeking" is just a special effect of a missile that is very accurate. It doesn't really matter that it is using IR as a targeting mechanism.

 

So something like: +8 OCV, only versus targets with a heat signature (-0), OIF (-0), etc. 8 RP

If the fact that it might not hit until a later phase become extremely important you could implement this as either a subset of Damage Over Time or Delayed Effect. You might have to house rule parts of it to make it fit your exact requirements.

 

The second would be if the exact method where it flies around looking for a particular target heat signature is important over multiple phases... build it as a vehicle with an AI. It should not require a lot of points, mostly it's a detect, RKA, and flight with some bonuses to perception to avoid other things. Note that this has the advantage / disadvantage of allowing it to be attacked and destroyed.

 

- E

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  Is this primarily for chasing characters with high heat out puts like the Human Torch? (See the missle chase in the first FF movie.)  Or for tracking characters who are invisible to normal sight?  Unfortunately they have different write ups for optimal effectiveness.

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The Equipment Book has listing for "Mini-Missile Launcher" which is described as tracking the target around objects, etc... 

 

it is built with Indirect and No Range Modifiers, and an optional build adds Extra Time (1 Segment) to represent the time it takes for the missile to located and reach the target. And other option adds Limited Range (400m) to represent the missile running out of fuel before reaching the target. 

 

To build what you want I would maybe add Continuing Charges (1 Turn) and Requires An (Attack) Roll every Phase to the build to represent that if it doesn't hit the target right away it can keep trying for up to one turn. it also means the Character can "fire and forget" the missile and move on to doing other stuff while the missile keeps trying to hit the target for 1 turn. The missile would continue acting on the Player's phases on its own. The target can keep trying to dodge the missile every phase it "attacks" him/her on or attempt to out run it, by moving more then 400m away from his/her starting position or both at the same time. 

 

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23 hours ago, mallet said:

To build what you want I would maybe add Continuing Charges (1 Turn) and Requires An (Attack) Roll every Phase to the build to represent that if it doesn't hit the target right away it can keep trying for up to one turn. it also means the Character can "fire and forget" the missile and move on to doing other stuff while the missile keeps trying to hit the target for 1 turn. The missile would continue acting on the Player's phases on its own. The target can keep trying to dodge the missile every phase it "attacks" him/her on or attempt to out run it, by moving more then 400m away from his/her starting position or both at the same time. 

 

 

That's not how a heat seeker works.  The principle of a heat seeker is to identify a massive heat source and home in onto it.  If there isn't anything that triggers its IR, the warhead actually doesn't arm.  Once armed, if the target starts moving *away*...the missile blows the warhead.  So it's more like a major bonus to OCV on a trigger, as eepjr noted.

 

Second:  400m isn't "missile" range;  for combat, that's way too short.  A surface-to-surface missile doesn't have to be fast;  the target speed is quite low.  That can mean the missile's not terribly fast either, so the range isn't that long...but still.  The Javelin top attack missile launched from a vehicle has a range of almost 5 km.  Anything else...surface-to-air, air-to-surface, air-to-air...should have a longer range.  

 

Homing missiles are similar.  The general principle:

 

1.  Radar systems detect a target.  This is a ground-based or vehicle-based target acquisition radar.

2.  Missile is fired.  The radar is used to guide the missile.

3.  Once the missile starts to get close, its own built-in seeker kicks in for final approach, to support rapid, fine-scale maneuvers to defeat evasive actions by the target.  Again, it'll detonate on contact, or if the target starts to move away.

 

So again..."homing" isn't "multiple attempts to hit."  It's "I got you now and you're not getting away from me."  

 

The "swing back around and try again next phase" is basically physically impossible.  Missiles are FAST;  even the Javelin is listed as doing 250 mph, or about 110 meters per second.  That's per second...not per phase.  So start thinking turn radius.  Start thinking fuel capacity and flight time.  Target reacquisition, and the risk of complete target loss, or worse, locking on to the wrong target.  (The whole classic Iron Man stunt of dodging out of the way of the tracking missile, to get it to hit an enemy.)  

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23 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

That's not how a heat seeker works.  The principle of a heat seeker is to identify a massive heat source and home in onto it.  If there isn't anything that triggers its IR, the warhead actually doesn't arm.  Once armed, if the target starts moving *away*...the missile blows the warhead.  So it's more like a major bonus to OCV on a trigger, as eepjr noted.

<snip>

I appreciate that you are talking about a real world missile here and I agree with you from that front, but that is not what the poster referenced. He is talking about a specific weapon and ammunition load from the Judge Dredd Universe that does work in just the way described. 

 

- E

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I'm looking at the Judge Dredd wiki, and unless the comics or movies actually show it doing the Bugs Bunny stuff, I'd suggest doing it as a straight OCV bonus.  It's far simpler mechanically, and I daresay it's actually a lot cheaper, if you model what's needed to do the multiple passes.  

But even in the comics, my handwavium has limits.  This is WAY beyond that.  And it breaks KISS.  YMMV, of course.

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2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I'm looking at the Judge Dredd wiki, and unless the comics or movies actually show it doing the Bugs Bunny stuff, I'd suggest doing it as a straight OCV bonus.  It's far simpler mechanically, and I daresay it's actually a lot cheaper, if you model what's needed to do the multiple passes.  

But even in the comics, my handwavium has limits.  This is WAY beyond that.  And it breaks KISS.  YMMV, of course.

Personally, I agree. Just wanted you to know this was not a missle he was looking at. Thus, my earlier suggestion on OCV. heh.

 

- E

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It's a lot cheaper to just buy a big bonus to OCV.  It's more effective too.  I always wince when people have a cool description that they want to use, but it makes the power less effective and a lot more expensive.  My general belief is that there's gotta be a better way to do it.

 

I might make up a custom limitation.  It's just the "limited power" limitation with whatever description and value you want to give it.  That can really alter the way a power works, all it takes is imagination.  Remember that since we're basically making the power worse, you may not have to pay for any advantage.

 

Mini heat-seeker missile

3D6 RKA with +5 OCV (55 active points)

OAF gun (-1)

Limited power: works like heat seeker in cartoons* (-1/2)

 

That's all you need.  Except you probably need to better define what "works like it does in the cartoon" means in game terminology.  There aren't many situations where a guy getting hit a few phases later is better than him getting hit now (certainly not in any predictable sense that you can plan for in gameplay), so I don't think you need to pay for an advantage.

 

So here's our more clearly defined game terminology:

 

*works like heat seeker in cartoons means that when the player uses the power, he rolls to hit.  If the player hits his target with his unaided OCV (i.e., without the +5), then the attack hits on the next segment.  If the attack hits, but requires any part of the OCV bonus, then the player must roll to hit again after a number of segments equal to the OCV bonus used.  So if the attacker hit the target, but used 3 points of "bonus OCV" to do so, then he may roll to hit again after 3 segments as the missile comes back around.  If he hits the second time, the attack lands on that segment.

 

Understand that this is a whole lot worse than a simple bonus to OCV.  The attacker doesn't get the chance to hit twice -- he has to hit twice.  It's more accurate, yes, but he's got to make two successful to-hit rolls to actually tag his target (unless he hits without the OCV bonus the first time).  Once he fires the attack, it's out of his hands.  He can't control when it lands.  He'll never actually hit on the phase he fires it (though you can define your limited power limitation however you want).  If he misses, then he just misses and that's it.  The missile flies off somewhere else.  Now it's technically possible that he could shoot the gun a bunch, and by blind luck all the attacks could land on the same phase.  But the player can't actually control that.

 

So that's how I'd build it.  Save points.

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Wow. I wrote this!

 

 

These are the ANVIL II missiles from HERO: Combat Evolved;

 

48 Anvil II ASM: Killing Attack - Ranged 5d6-1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), No Range Modifier (+1/2), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (192 Active Points); 8 Charges (Must be Reloaded at a UNSC Facility; -1), OIF Bulky (-1), Extra Time (Extra Segment, Travels 200" per Segment, taking a minimum of 1 Segment to Reach its Target; -1/2), Infrared Tracking (Can be Countered with Flares; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Arc Of Fire (180 degrees; -1/4)

 

240 UNSC M19 SPNKr Rocket Launcher: (Total: 591 Active Cost, 240 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 8d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2) (330 Active Points); 4 clips of 2 Charges (Increased Reloading Time: 2 Full Phases; -1 1/4), OAF (Universal; -1), STR Minimum (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 66) plus Penalty Skill Levels: +2 vs. Range Modifier with Equipped Firearms (Real Cost: 4) plus +2 OCV, Equipped Firearms (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), +2 OCV Only (-1/2) (Real Cost: 5) plus Area Of Effect Accurate (up to One Hex; +1/2) for up to 330 Active Points of UNSC M19 SPNKr Rocket Launcher, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (247 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) (Real Cost: 165)

 

And for a pure missile-as-vehicle, I've attached my Shiva Nuclear Missile file, which'll give you some idea of how to handle that.

 

Dunno what happened to the file, I think they all got wiped, which is a shame, because that was the only place for my HERO: Combat Evolved stuff. Unless @Killer Shrike or @Simon has them lying about somewhere.

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For simplicity, increased OCV / No Range Modifier / AOE Accurate may be better.  However...

 

Waaay back in the days of 4E Champions, someone wrote up a very complex home-rule Advantage for Homing, which I used for a while.  IIRC, it gave the attack a base movement (that I think you could increase with +1/4 advantages), a PER Roll, DCV, etc.  If the attacker missed his initial attack roll, in following Phases he could make attack-based PER rolls to continue to lock on and then make additional attack rolls  until either the attack hits or is intercepted by something else.  

 

It was a lot of fun, both for me as GM as well as for the players.  One of the Genocide Pawns in my game had a homing missile launcher, and it was one of the more feared weapons (partly due to the homing aspect, and partly due to the high damage, something like 4d6 RKA).  The PC heroes loved to dodge the rocket's initial attack attempt, then try to redirect the rockets at Genocide Rooks and Knights. 

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On 10/9/2020 at 2:47 AM, Hugh Neilson said:

Summon Missile :)

 

Slavishly loyal automaton which is destroyed on impact.

In Champions Powers, under Miscellaneous Powers, there is a “Nega Beam” which is (I believe) intended to simulate Darkseid’s attack. It is hideously expensive, being a Summon for a 1,000+ point construct. But it does home in on its target. 

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