How would you limit someone to half phases?

[eepjr24]

So, first a quick reference to the effect I am looking at:

 

Quote

Fetid Cloud (1/Day). A 10­-foot radius of disgusting green gas extends out from the dretch. The gas spreads around corners, and its area is lightly obscured. It lasts for 1 minute or until a strong wind disperses it. Any creature that starts its turn in that area must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned until the start of its next turn. While poisoned in this way, the target can take either an action or a bonus action on its turn, not both, and can't take reactions.

 

This is a DND 5e effect from a demonic creature called a Dretch. Feel free to read up more on it if you are interested. I am not worried about the lightly obscuring, time or dispersal methods, I am curious how you would implement the effect in Hero System terms. For those unfamiliar with DND 5e, it essentially restricts you taking reactions which would roughly translate to not being able to execute triggered actions that require thought or decision making. I am thinking I will simply either skip or handwave this effect, maybe with a preset value ALA CE: STUNNED in APG, but I am curious if anyone has an innovative way to do it?

 

- E

[eepjr24]

Sorry to have confusion on the original topic line, that was another line of thought that was related to the above but not quite the same. If you have ideas on how to limit someone to half phases, I am open to that as well.

 

- E

[Tech]

Just throwing a quick guess out: a 1d6, 1 Def NND Entangle (Def: Life Support vs breathing or Poison), Area Effect, 1 charge lasting 1 minute, doesn't hinder if only a 1/2 phase is taken, easily dispersed by strong wind

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Tech said:

Just throwing a quick guess out: a 1d6, 1 Def NND Entangle (Def: Life Support vs breathing or Poison), Area Effect, 1 charge lasting 1 minute, doesn't hinder if only a 1/2 phase is taken, easily dispersed by strong wind

Yeah my first thought was some sort of Mental Paralysis. Could also be mental control based on Con: only to make half phases. Or yeah CE-Con Roll failed means you only make half phase.

[Thia Halmades]

Note: the following explanation is for those unfamiliar with 5th:

 

Huh. This is an effect that’s unique to 5e, because of the way it handles action economy. In HERO you have two half phases, one half phase is commonly used to move, the other is used to act. Alternatively, you can open with an attack, but I believe that taking an attack action ends the turn. Broadly speaking, HERO doesn’t “take away” things, it just adds challenges to completing them. 5th, however, has each action as a sub-type; Movement, Action, and commonly Bonus Action (particularly for Rogues). The thing is, in HERO terms, you would get to act normally under this effect (triggered actions not withstanding, but those are uncommon).

 

I think the translation would be to restrict the user to “Only simple actions.” Single attacks, simple spells, etc. Anything that would require a full phase, concentration, etc., are off the table. So you can brace, but not set, and you could fire, but not take multiple shots, or use an ability like “long draw” that gave you an advantage, etc. With that defined, then it comes down to Mind Control.

 

Yeah, I know. Mind Control. But that’s what we would use to specifically restrict how someone behaves. I think it’s a touch ... odd? But not inherently illegal or kludgey. You pop in a CON check/saving throw modified by the AP of the effect and go from there.

[Grailknight]

Not innovative, but you can force a character to only have a 1/2 phase with a +10 PRE Attack. Not as restrictive in HERO but you limit them to either moving or attacking.

[eepjr24]

17 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Not innovative, but you can force a character to only have a 1/2 phase with a +10 PRE Attack. Not as restrictive in HERO but you limit them to either moving or attacking.

Something that smells that bad might be quite... startling! 😃

 

18 hours ago, Thia Halmades said:

Yeah, I know. Mind Control. But that’s what we would use to specifically restrict how someone behaves. I think it’s a touch ... odd? But not inherently illegal or kludgey. You pop in a CON check/saving throw modified by the AP of the effect and go from there.

That's another way to go. Or I could go with the STUNNED Change Environment effect with a -1 limitation that it only lasts half a phase. They get a CON roll to save.

 

- E

[Thia Halmades]

What are you thinking, like a 30 point SER PRE attack, AVAD to CON?

[eepjr24]

39 minutes ago, Thia Halmades said:

What are you thinking, like a 30 point SER PRE attack, AVAD to CON?

Hrm. That would work once. The problem with PRE attacks is that you get used to them. But besides that, would AVAD to CON be a -0?

 

- E

[Pegasus40218]

I would probably look at what the spell is really intended to accomplish.  Something to consider is that, in 5e (and D&D in general), all of the characters and monsters basically have the same SPD.  In HERO, that's not going to be the case.  In a typical Fantasy HERO campaign, you'll probably have characters and/or monsters with SPD values ranging from 2 or 3 to 5 or 6 (and possibly higher for certain monsters [quickling, anyone?]).  If the objective of the spell is to have anyone in the AOE have the number of actions they can take in a TURN reduced, you could build it has a SPD drain.  This could be somewhat expensive, but could be built such that it would easily halve the actions of most PCs, NPCs, and monsters (though it would be less effective against extremely speedy monsters, or completely debilitating against particularly slow ones).  It also seems to work with the SFX you're after:  "Your speed is reduced by X (probably 2 dependent upon the construction of the spell) as you find your eyes burning and watering and you're gasping and choking on the stench trying not to retch..."

[LoneWolf]

I think that the game systems are too different to try and mimic the same effect.  Limiting a character to a half phase action is not going to do the same thing as the effect in D&D.  

 

Typically poisons are done as drains.  At 0 EGO a character has to make a EGO roll (9 or less) to make any kind of action.  They also obey any order given to them which is not what you want.  A drain ego with the limitation only for purpose of making an action would work.  Assuming you drain the targets EGO to 0 they will need to make the roll to do anything.   
 

[Beast]

what about this

 

29pts fetid odors:  Change Environment (-5 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll, Long-Lasting 1 Turn, Stunning), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4) (59 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (target only loses 1/2 phase; -1)

[Scott Ruggels]

The other way to do it is to force either a CON or INT Roll to perform any action? 

[Christougher]

When introducing HERO to new players, I have explained using a Move action and an Attack action (which could also be a Move).  Such an effect would remove the first.

 

I've also looked into replicating MMO Mesmerize effects here: and this looks like an interesting addition to the discussion.  

 

[Alcibiades]

drain speed

[Thia Halmades]

On 10/6/2020 at 9:49 PM, Pegasus40218 said:

Something to consider is that, in 5e (and D&D in general), all of the characters and monsters basically have the same SPD.  In HERO, that's not going to be the case.  In a typical Fantasy HERO campaign, you'll probably have characters and/or monsters with SPD values ranging from 2 or 3 to 5 or 6 (and possibly higher for certain monsters [quickling, anyone?]). 

I considered this, but I think the mechanics of the spell, in this instance, are better preserved by limiting the actual action economy down to a half phase. An argument can be made for SPD reduction, and in many cases it’s the right answer, but in this instance I’d be looking to shake it up. Mind Control to CON is how I would do it (YMMV). 

[Duke Bushido]

Honestly, I think Tech absolutely nailed it, save that I would make it more akin to mental paralysis, but based against CON instead of EGO.  The build for the fetid cloud (which, just so you all know, I read as "fetid clown," but most of that still made sense until about halfway through the reading.     ) would be a mental paralysis versus CON, with the limitation that it it doesn't inhibit anyone taking "twice as long" to do something.  That is, doing only a half-phase worth of 'stuff' during their phase.

 

I'd allow it.  I mean, if entangle / mental paralysis can stop them from doing _anything_, then certainly I have no issues with a limited form that stops them from doing "half their thing."