What skills would these be

[Gandalf970]

I am starting a Pendragon based campaign and want to use some of the skills from there and convert to Hero.  What would the skills below convert to in Hero in your campaign, don't worry about drilling down into the what for and if then's.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Compose

Dancing

Falconry

Flirting

Heraldry

Hunting

Play Musical Instrument

Read

Tourney

Battle

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Most are Professional Skills or Knowledge Skills. Flirting would be Charm. Read is the appropriate Language-Literacy. Falconry is Animal Handler.

[bluesguy]

All of this is based on my opinion/experience building characters for a long time, not on the books

• Hunting - Depends on if you mean someone who makes their living hunting or what the nobles called hunting. 
  • If it is the 1st then it is a set of skills - tracking, stealth, survival (appropriate environments), knowledge skill about plants and fauna, appropriate skills with hunting weapons (bow, spear, etc) and maybe a professional skill hunter
  • 2nd type is maybe survival and appropriate skills with hunting weapons (bow, spear, etc)
• Tourney/Compose/Dancing - knowledge skills maybe based on a characteristic
• Falconry - Animal husbandry
• Flirting - Charm
• Heraldry - High Society
• Read - literacy for the appropriate language
• Play Musical Instrument - there is a specific skill for that with a list of instruments.  It is like weapons familiarity
• Battle - No idea what this is

[Ninja-Bear]

Battle can be Tactics.

[Ninja-Bear]

Bluesguybnice call on Heraldry. I don’t know the system that Gandalf is converting from but off hand that could work too.

[pawsplay]

Compose - likely this is PS: Writing

Dancing - PS: Dancing

Falconry - Animal Handler and if you're using focused skills it's with raptors. If this is a particular specialty of your character, Skill Level: +1 with Animal Handler, KS: Falconry and PS: Falconer

Flirting - Conversation, Charm if you're willing to go all the way. Maybe better as a talent, +5 PR, only for flirting Presence Attacks

Heraldry - in a Pendragon context, High Society covers this to some extent, KS: Heraldry for a specialist

Hunting - Tracking, and at least Familiarity with Survival

Play Musical Instrument - PS: Musical instrument

Read - just part of the languages rules

Tourney - in a Pendragon context, High Society covers the basics, the rest would be covered by KS: Chivalric martial arts

Battle - Tactcs, Teamwork

[LoneWolf]

Like anything in the hero system skill can be purchased multiple ways.  Having a KS, or PS of something accomplished by a full skill is perfectly legitimate and should be encouraged.  You can even have different skills of the same name as purchased differently.  Generally KS only give you the knowledge of the subject and don’t allow you to actually do anything.  PS give you the ability to do something but limited knowledge of the subject.  So someone with KS plumbing knows a lot about plumbing and its history, but can’t fix anything. Someone with a PS plumbing would be able to fix the sink, but would not be able to tell you when or who invented anything plumbing related.

 
A couple skills jump out from that list.  

 

High Society would be the first.  That one would cover a lot of “courtly grace” but if the person wants to be particular skilled at an aspect an appropriate KS or PS would be useful.  Knowing how to dance without embarrassing yourself would probably be covered under it, but if you want to be really good at it purchase a PS dancing.

 

Flirting would be charm.

 

Hunting would be Survival

 

Read is literacy.

 

Tourney and battle would be martial arts and or combat skill level, and as Ninja bear state tactics.

 

Falconry is animal handling.
 

[HeroGM]

Hearldry could also be a language or a knowledge skill. High Society as a complimentary roll. 

[zslane]

I think that if Dancing is considered an important courtly ability in the campaign, then it might be worth making it a full DEX-based Skill of its own. KS: Dancing would represent knowledge of all the different dances and their steps, while the DEX-based skill would cover actually performing those dances with precision and grace.

[HeroGM]

3 hours ago, zslane said:

I think that if Dancing is considered an important courtly ability in the campaign, then it might be worth making it a full DEX-based Skill of its own. KS: Dancing would represent knowledge of all the different dances and their steps, while the DEX-based skill would cover actually performing those dances with precision and grace.

 

You could do ks:dancing to represent knowledge of all dancing, while breaking it down by country or style. Could also do professional: dancing for those who are REALLY serious about it. 

[zslane]

I wonder, though, what dancing as a "profession" would even look like in a medieval fantasy setting. It's not like the modern dance world which involves lining up public venues, dealing with promoters, advertising, creating a dance "show", negotiating fees and payment, doing the accounting, etc. In other words, all the things that make dancing a business, i.e., a profession. In a medieval setting, I'd say that most of that comes down to one's reputation and knowledge of who to speak to in order to perform either in a courtly hall or in a large tavern in cities where there are enough people with the disposable income to spend on such entertainments. Most of that would be covered by Perks like Reputation and knowledge skills of the cities/courts in question. So, I'm not convinced there is a need or a place for a PS: Dancing skill in such a setting.

[HeroGM]

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Oh and about instruments:

 

[pawsplay]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

I wonder, though, what dancing as a "profession" would even look like in a medieval fantasy setting. It's not like the modern dance world which involves lining up public venues, dealing with promoters, advertising, creating a dance "show", negotiating fees and payment, doing the accounting, etc. In other words, all the things that make dancing a business, i.e., a profession. In a medieval setting, I'd say that most of that comes down to one's reputation and knowledge of who to speak to in order to perform either in a courtly hall or in a large tavern in cities where there are enough people with the disposable income to spend on such entertainments. Most of that would be covered by Perks like Reputation and knowledge skills of the cities/courts in question. So, I'm not convinced there is a need or a place for a PS: Dancing skill in such a setting.

 

A lot of it would be traveling or stage acts, not that different than vaudeville, conjuring, etc. "Dancer" is also an ancient euphemism for a companion-for-hire; in Ancient Greece, the preferred daytime profession was "flute-player."

[zslane]

Sure, but to quote the rulebook: "Professional Skills give a character the ability to perform some task or do some type of work." If the work in question is dancing, a purely DEX-based activity from a game system perspective, then it seems to me that is more appropriately handled by making it a DEX-based Characteristic Skill, akin to Acrobatics, than by making it a Background Skill akin to PS: Merchant.

[archer]

21 hours ago, HeroGM said:

------

Oh and about instruments:

 

 

When I was a kid, I learned to play the spoons.

[pawsplay]

On 11/26/2020 at 11:25 AM, zslane said:

Sure, but to quote the rulebook: "Professional Skills give a character the ability to perform some task or do some type of work." If the work in question is dancing, a purely DEX-based activity from a game system perspective, then it seems to me that is more appropriately handled by making it a DEX-based Characteristic Skill, akin to Acrobatics, than by making it a Background Skill akin to PS: Merchant.

 

It would be a PS skill you could choose to base on Dexterity. Its not like Acrobatics because it's not used in a general adventuring context. It's a skill you might have as part of your background as a dancer.

[zslane]

Okay, sure, if the skill in question is just a mundane, narratively insignificant activity akin to a job, and never used in an adventuring (or dramatically significant) context, then I agree a Background skill like KS or PS might make sense. The white hot spotlight of dramatic focus will never be on the character's dance ability, so simply establishing that they "know how to dance" is probably sufficient to flesh out the character's background. But, as I said earlier, if dance is going to be an important courtly ability in the campaign, one in which the results of a dancing skill roll will typically have narrative significance, then I'd elevate it to the status of a full-blown DEX-based skill rather than a Background skill.

 

[Spence]

Well, if he is converting from the game Pendragon, then it is all Knights of the Round Table and courtly to do. And to me the skills wouldn't be one for one, but combinations. 

 

Dancing is an important skill used during court and can directly impact Glory and reputation.  It covers not only being able to dance, but also knowing the various courtly dances. 

 

Another skill called Courtesy exists as well. 

 

If I was the one making the conversion I would say that Courtesy and Dancing would both combine under High Society.

I would then add a Dex based skill Courtly Dance.

Plus the skill Conversation.

 

High Society to cover knowing the lineage and reputation of those in attendance as well as courtly etiquette, including the known dances and what is appropriate at that time in court.

Conversation would cover actually engaging in talking and witty repartee.

Courtly Dance to cover actually dancing.

 

All three used to successfully navigate the court. 

 

[HeroGM]

Ok, to me "Dancing" comes as "mom never taught me to dance" => Dex roll. 

I know 10 styles of Dance => 10 (or less) knowledge skills, either on dancing itself or culture.

"I'm so good, I know 10 styles plus I can teach it and/or get paid for it."  Professional Skill plus the Knowledge skills.

Now if you want to push it Science Skill: Dancing looks at how each move is broken down and has evolved over the years..."why yes, I see how the Traladar styled evolved from the Millennial culture, they simply relaxed their more stiff, um proper, movements"

 

Acrobatics I could see as an add-on. Coperia (IIRC) is a martial-art based on slaves having their hands/feet chained. It was commonly hidden as a type of dance (again IIRC). Either as an add to a full on dance skill or supplement to a DEX roll it would be useful to have. I'm not sure I'd strictly base Dancing off it though. 

[zslane]

5 minutes ago, HeroGM said:

"I'm so good, I know 10 styles plus I can teach it and/or get paid for it."  Professional Skill plus the Knowledge skills.

 

In a Pendragon RPG context, such a Professional Skill would probably take the form of PS: Dance Master, and they would be qualified to take on apprentices to pass their skills and the tradition(s) of dance to. I seriously doubt, however, that any Knight of the Realm would have such a thing, seeing as how their "profession" requires dividing their time between too many disciplines--with martial disciplines taking up the majority of their time--to ever become a Dance Master. But then again, if this is a "fantasy" version of Pendragon, then I suppose you could have all kinds of silly notions like Knights who are also Dance Masters who take on dance apprentices.

[HeroGM]

I agree. My context was fantasy in general, not just Pendragon. The again when you deal with those pesky french....

[Hugh Neilson]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:05 AM, Gandalf970 said:

What would the skills below convert to in Hero in your campaign, don't worry about drilling down into the what for and if then's. 

 

See, therein lies the problem.  because

 

On 11/25/2020 at 7:44 AM, LoneWolf said:

Like anything in the hero system skill can be purchased multiple ways.  Having a KS, or PS of something accomplished by a full skill is perfectly legitimate and should be encouraged.  You can even have different skills of the same name as purchased differently.  Generally KS only give you the knowledge of the subject and don’t allow you to actually do anything.  PS give you the ability to do something but limited knowledge of the subject.  So someone with KS plumbing knows a lot about plumbing and its history, but can’t fix anything. Someone with a PS plumbing would be able to fix the sink, but would not be able to tell you when or who invented anything plumbing related.

 

Which means that the what for and if then's will determine the most appropriate conversion.

[pawsplay]

9 hours ago, zslane said:

Okay, sure, if the skill in question is just a mundane, narratively insignificant activity akin to a job, and never used in an adventuring (or dramatically significant) context, then I agree a Background skill like KS or PS might make sense. The white hot spotlight of dramatic focus will never be on the character's dance ability, so simply establishing that they "know how to dance" is probably sufficient to flesh out the character's background. But, as I said earlier, if dance is going to be an important courtly ability in the campaign, one in which the results of a dancing skill roll will typically have narrative significance, then I'd elevate it to the status of a full-blown DEX-based skill rather than a Background skill.

 

 

I don't really understand this reasoning. I'm not saying dancing is insignificant, I'm just saying, it's only as significant as its role as a professional skill one might have. It's not, in principle, different from PS: Play the lute, KS: Welsh history, or PS: Tanner. I definitely would not "elevate" it to being a "full-blown" skill because you are just basically saying you want to charge more points for a background skill.

[zslane]

If the skill is only going to serve to fill out a character's background and not be terribly significant in the campaign, then a Background Skill would probably be a good way to represent it. That's why it is called a "Background" skill and is cheaper. Because it won't play that much of a role in the campaign.

 

Also, Professional Skills typically have a profession after the "PS:", not an ability. PS: Dancer rather than PS: Dancing. The point is to convey the notion that they have a "profession" that encompasses a bunch of (minor) related skills that represent some job they perform on a daily basis. It is mostly just to let you know that in their "civilian" life (i.e., their non-adventuring life) they have a job that makes them highly familiar with a bunch of mundane skills and bits of knowledge. However, in a campaign in which an ability will have major dramatic significance, it should be a characteristic-based skill with the appropriately higher price that entails.

[Spence]

10 hours ago, zslane said:

However, in a campaign in which an ability will have major dramatic significance, it should be a characteristic-based skill with the appropriately higher price that entails.

 

Which is Dance in the Pendragon setting.