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Dragon: rED/rPD 20


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Definitely difficult to do.

 
-Armor Piercing weapons are almost a must. 
 

-Certain spells might be effective. 
 

-Unique Magical weapons that deal extra damage to dragons or ignore someone or all of their armor.

 

-Weapons or attacks that ignore rPD/rED, for example weapons/attacks with NND or the like. 
 

I’m sure people will chime in with other options, but those are what come to mind off the top of my head. 

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Depends on if it fits the story I guess. If it does, then the hero's will somehow find out about a chink in it's armor or a weakness to a specific effect or a special weapon that can help, etc. 

 

Outside of that I think poison is an option (NND Does Body) or as mentioned above certain spells with penetrating (perhaps multiple times), AVAD versus power defense if that is lower. Some things to keep it busy while you work on it (Flashes, entangles, maybe drains or suppresses?).

 

- E

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ScaleBreaker. 

 

My current campaign isn't midieval or Tolkien-esque.  All life except humans is reptilian or insectoid.  Humans were a recent discovery and are a sort of second-class being. 

 

Anyway, ScaleBreaker is a relic from the Barbaric Expansion: a war hammerforged during the Dragon War that has been Blessed and blood baptised so many times that it has taken on magical properties. 

 

The original design  was so effective against dragon scale that it persist to this day as a style of hammer collective referred to as "scale breakers." 

 

Essentially, it's an extra DC or AP vs chitin (the dragons of this setting are insectoid).   For _the_ ScaleBreaker, it's both. 

 

Though dragon scale in this setting is a self-solving problem, as it breaks down as it ages, and does take damage of its own.  I'm just not a fan iof "invincible forever;" what can I say?) 

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One option is very high damage weapons (mounted knight charging with a lance) and just battering the dragon unconscious inside its ultra-hard body.

 

20 points of rPD/rED is going to put the dragon out of reach anything that isn't highly amped up.

Great Axe plus Haymaker gets you into the 3d6+1 to 3.5d6 Range.  A few levels on damage could get you to 4d6 HKA which means you're still doing 0 damage on anything short of a critical hit.

 

One classic way I've seen of handling this is the dragon has reduced (or zero) armor for area 13.  A weak spot to exploit.

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Personally, I favor Hit Locations. The Hero System Bestiary has a suggested "Draconic Hit Location" table, with x2 Body for a head shot, and x3 for "Vital Spot" (traditionally the underbelly). While those locations carry major "To Hit" penalties, the DCV penalty for the frequently great size of dragons substantially offsets that. And of course, if you can manage to Stun or Knock Out the dragon, those spots become much easier to hit.

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Hit Location x2 Body is after defenses, so no good. I'm wondering what the heck kind of dragon this is; many dragons are said to have hides "tougher than steel" but this has more than double the resistant defenses of plate armor. Sure, it's up to 32m tall, but this thing could eat a lot of superheroes for breakfast.

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I used to use Damage Reduction for really big creatures like dragons because that sword isn't going to be anything more than a hatpin to a dragon.  Then I could give the dragon substantial armor (say +12 rPD/rED) without it being ridiculously high.  But now I favor Damage Negation, in part because it is more granular than Damage Reduction (and point-wise it scales better) and in part because Negation Reduction gives me a way to bypass it; e.g. an archer with the Skill: Soft Spot which is just levels of Negation Reduction.  You can also build it into a Dragon-Slaying sword (which would also probably have Armor Piercing).

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3 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

I used to use Damage Reduction for really big creatures like dragons because that sword isn't going to be anything more than a hatpin to a dragon.  Then I could give the dragon substantial armor (say +12 rPD/rED) without it being ridiculously high.  But now I favor Damage Negation, in part because it is more granular than Damage Reduction (and point-wise it scales better) and in part because Negation Reduction gives me a way to bypass it; e.g. an archer with the Skill: Soft Spot which is just levels of Negation Reduction.  You can also build it into a Dragon-Slaying sword (which would also probably have Armor Piercing).

 

In 6e, I've used Damage Negation for a similar effect.

 

Size Matters:  Damage Negation (-3 DCs Physical, -3 DCs Energy) (30 Active Points); Limited Power Not vs AoE or attacks specifically designed for use against large targets) (-1/4)

 

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  • 1 month later...

If you are using hit locations and fighting large creatures it is actually fairly easy to take them out.  You may not get body through, but the stun multiplier makes them easier to knock out.  If you are also using the critical hit rules it becomes even easier.  

 

Looking over the sample dragon provided earlier a critical hit to the head with a 4d6 HKS would get 84 points past its defenses, which will stun it and put it at 0 STUN in one shot.  Even a critical hit from a 3d6 attack will get 54 through, which is enough to stun it.  Once it is stunned it is even easier to hit and get a critical hit.  

 

That is why a lot of monsters are given damage reduction.  This tends to make a lot of monsters unbillable except by massive amounts of attacks.  The way to overcome damage reduction is a huge amount of mid powered attacks.  This is why in 6th edition damage negation works better. Damage negation totally neutralizes the low powered attacks, and often does the same to the mid powered.  It means to take out a tough target you need high powered attacks. 
 

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4 hours ago, archer said:

 

The most horrifying thing was at the end, the YouTuber put up "Subscribe to my channel for more such videos".

 

Seriously, there's more such videos?

 

Not in this series. The main character is so ruthless because one of his classmates/dungeon party pushed him from a bridge in the dungeon and he was left to die. He survived by luck at first, then by killing and eating monsters losing an eye and an arm in the process.

 

  So did your laughter overcome the horror or vice versa?  I found it hysterical but just wrong on so many levels.

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11 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

If you are using hit locations and fighting large creatures it is actually fairly easy to take them out.  You may not get body through, but the stun multiplier makes them easier to knock out.  If you are also using the critical hit rules it becomes even easier.  

 

Looking over the sample dragon provided earlier a critical hit to the head with a 4d6 HKS would get 84 points past its defenses, which will stun it and put it at 0 STUN in one shot.  Even a critical hit from a 3d6 attack will get 54 through, which is enough to stun it.  Once it is stunned it is even easier to hit and get a critical hit.  

 

That is why a lot of monsters are given damage reduction.  This tends to make a lot of monsters unbillable except by massive amounts of attacks.  The way to overcome damage reduction is a huge amount of mid powered attacks.  This is why in 6th edition damage negation works better. Damage negation totally neutralizes the low powered attacks, and often does the same to the mid powered.  It means to take out a tough target you need high powered attacks. 
 

 

That's still 0 Body damage. Zero.

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1 hour ago, Grailknight said:

 

  So did your laughter overcome the horror or vice versa?  I found it hysterical but just wrong on so many levels.

 

I know it's sort of genre for the rest of the characters to just stand around doing nothing while the main character is doing something.

 

But in this particular instance, I found it hysterical that the rest of the characters seemed to be standing around transfixed with horror at what was going on and not knowing how to react.

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13 hours ago, pawsplay said:

 

That's still 0 Body damage. Zero.

Actually on the 4d6 attack it takes 6 Body.  A critical hit mean it takes maximum damage (24) and it has 21 DEF assuming that all of its defense activates, that is doubled for being a head shot.  After the first critical hit to the head the next shot will get an average of 39 stun through its defenses also assuming a head shot, but not a critical hit. Which means it is  uncurious and takes x2 stun after that It is down for the count.  Once this happens all the party has to do it so keep chopping at its head and they will eventually get enough damage through to kill it.

 

With the 3d6 attack things are a little harder but using a haymaker or other methods of increasing the damage can bring up the damage high enough to get through.  This also assumes that the part does not have picks or other AP attacks.  These can also be used with the 4d6 attack to make that even easier. 

 

Once something it knocked out it is not that hard to kill.  
 

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21 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Actually on the 4d6 attack it takes 6 Body.  A critical hit mean it takes maximum damage (24) and it has 21 DEF assuming that all of its defense activates, that is doubled for being a head shot.  After the first critical hit to the head the next shot will get an average of 39 stun through its defenses also assuming a head shot, but not a critical hit. Which means it is  uncurious and takes x2 stun after that It is down for the count.  Once this happens all the party has to do it so keep chopping at its head and they will eventually get enough damage through to kill it.

 

With the 3d6 attack things are a little harder but using a haymaker or other methods of increasing the damage can bring up the damage high enough to get through.  This also assumes that the part does not have picks or other AP attacks.  These can also be used with the 4d6 attack to make that even easier. 

 

Once something it knocked out it is not that hard to kill.  
 

 Let's say it is now knocked out. How do you kill it?

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Did you even read my post?  

 

The very first sentence is pointing out that on a critical hit to the head the dragon is in fact taking 6 Body.   Once the dragon is knocked out he takes x2 stun which means he is not waking up for a long time.  That gives the players plenty of time to make attacks.  When the dragon is knocked out his DCV drops to 0 and the penalty for a called shot is halved.  That means getting a critical it is not that hard considering the players can keep rolling as often as they need.   After 10 critical hits the dragon is DEAD.   On each hit the dragon also takes 240 Stun.  Even on an attack that does minimum damage the dragon is going to be taking 4 Stun. That means the dragon is not waking up as long as the players keep attacking it once in a while.

 

If the players keep attacking they are eventually going to kill the dragon.  It may take a ridiculously long time, and hopefully the GM is not going to insist on rolling every hit.   
 

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