Requires a roll limitation - modified

[eepjr24]

So I have a variation of RAR that I want to implement. It would work thus: When a new day starts, the power has one use available automatically. When that use is expended, the power requires a roll to be used again. However, unlike the typical RAR, the roll for each phase is known prior to the action being taken. So the character does not need to use END or waste the phase on something they know is not going to work. I would likely limit this to powers using the Unmodified Roll version of RAR. Once you successfully make the roll, the power is available once more until you use it, then the process starts again.

 

My thought here would be it is 1/2 less limitation value. So an 11- would be a -0, 10- would be -1/4, etc. 

 

Thoughts?

 

P.S. I realize there are probably other ways to do this (Dedicated END reserve with REC on a RAR or a naked Recoverable charge with RAR perhaps) but I'd like to focus on whether the 1/2 less limitation seems fair and balanced.

 

- E

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by eepjr24
Phrasing

[IndianaJoe3]

This sounds like the Burnout option for Requires A Roll.

[Ninja-Bear]

10 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

This sounds like the Burnout option for Requires A Roll.

You beat me to to it.

[eepjr24]

13 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

This sounds like the Burnout option for Requires A Roll.

It's less limiting than Burnout, I did consider that option. But the conditions for burnout to reset are "the rest of the adventure (or until the power recovers from Burnout or is repaired, at the GM’s discretion)". Yes, I can apply GM discretion, which is really what I am trying to do here.

 

I am going to quote a bit of 6E here to illustrate what I am trying to change. I have played with folks who don't use this rule, so if you don't play this way, I can see why it would look a lot like Burnout. 6E 391:

Quote

Regardless of the type of roll used, a character always makes Required Rolls after all other preparations. For example, he must spend the END for a power regardless of whether the Required Roll succeeds; if the power is an attack, attempting to use it is an Attack Action even if the power fails to activate. Making a Required Roll is an Action that takes no time that’s part of the overall attempt to activate or use an ability; if the roll fails, the character can’t change his declared Action.

 

If we look at a power, say a Blast. With 11- Burnout, you get one shot and if it burns out then you generally reset it when you can get to your lab or a repair shop or whatever. Maybe it works for 10 phases in a row, who knows. But every phase you want to use it, you have to commit to spending the END, Charge, attack action, etc.

 

Same Blast with 11- and the option above. I'll call it Requires a Reset Roll. On your phase, you roll your reset (0 phase action), if you succeed the power is available again for use, in that phase or later phases. There is no END, Charges, or commitment to an attack action required. If your reset roll fails, you cannot use the power that phase and must roll again next phase to see if it has reset yet.

 

So the differences:

No commitment to use the power to attempt the reset.

No END or charges spent if the reset roll fails.

 

So I am trying to figure out if those two are worth removing 1/2 limitation from the RAR.

 

- E

Edited October 10, 2020 by eepjr24
Added example, rule quote

[IndianaJoe3]

OK, I think I see what you're trying to accomplish here. The power will work at least once. After that, it has a reset roll that is a zero-phase action that does not commit to actually using the power. After the power is reset it will function normally the next time it is used, and then must be reset again.

 

This seems significantly less limiting than a standard activation roll. I'd say the Limitation would be 1/2 less than a normal activation roll, with a minimum value of -0.

[Hugh Neilson]

How often can I make the reset roll, and what type of action does it take?  If I can make a roll every phase at no action cost, then decide not to use the ability since the roll failed, that seems considerably less limiting than not knowing up front.  Sooner or later it will come back, I will know and then I can use it.

 

Burnout guarantees me one use, but if I blow the roll, that's the last use and I know it.  Jammed is a further -1/2 limitation for having to make the roll for even that first use.  What would we charge for the ability to use an action to unjam it?  That seems like it would change Jammed back to a normal Activation Roll.

 

That leads me to the conclusion a -1/2 reduction to the limitation would allow you to restore function by taking an action to restore the power.  That turns Jammed back into an Activation Roll. 

 

As Jammed is Burnout with an automatic first use success, it seems reasonable that first use automatic success reduces the limitation by -1/2.  After that, you would have to try to activate the power and roll activation normally.  If you want the reactivation roll to require less time, a further -1/2 reduction to the limitation feels like a reasonable cost.

 

So an 11- activation roll would not be a limitation to this power.  I can use it once, after which it's available only after I make a roll to reactivate, which can be made every phase and I know when it is reactivated.

 

Now I start thinking.

 

A 12d6 Blast, 11- Activation would cost 30 points.

 

Adding Burnout would make it cost the same 30 points.  Jammed would reduce it to 24 points.

 

But I'm getting 24 points + a 1 charge version of the power that still costs END (17 points) for 30 points by changing Jammed to Burnout.  Maybe Jammed and Burnout are on the stingy side already.  Is it really only worth 6 points to move from a 62.5% chance it works in each subsequent attempted use to no hope at all?

[eepjr24]

5 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

<snip>

 

Now I start thinking.

 

A 12d6 Blast, 11- Activation would cost 30 points.

 

Adding Burnout would make it cost the same 30 points.  Jammed would reduce it to 24 points.

 

But I'm getting 24 points + a 1 charge version of the power that still costs END (17 points) for 30 points by changing Jammed to Burnout.  Maybe Jammed and Burnout are on the stingy side already.  Is it really only worth 6 points to move from a 62.5% chance it works in each subsequent attempted use to no hope at all?

I followed you fine up to this point. Then you lost me. I think you are including a limitation you didn't write down maybe?

 

12d6 Blast [60 AP] RAR: 11- (-1/2) [40 RP]

 

12d6 Blast [60 AP] RAR: 11- Jam (-1) [30 AP]

 

Burnout is the same cost as just the RAR. It gets you one for sure shot and a 62.5% chance of a second and subsequent shots. I have always thought this one was slightly under limited since my reading of the text (6E1 and the 6E Equipment Guide) makes fixing it a much more serious. Almost every example I can find of Burnout makes the equipment "experimental" or "makeshift". I think if I used it more I would likely rule it an additional -1/4 limitation, but I almost never use it.

 

Jammed seems more in line for me if you limit it to things that have charges. For -1/2 MORE limitation, you can have your power back after a missed roll at the cost of an additional missed phase and one of your charges (or clips in some odd cases). It's not consistent, as some weapons with Jam in the Equipment guide say that after a jam it must be repaired or that it melts a component. Others list 1-2 phases to clear and some specify as long as 5 minutes to clear (6E EG 165 - Tangleweb Projector) or even "burns itself out in the process" (6E EG 180 - Power Augmentor).  Obviously all of this is well within "GM Discretion" but it has always seemed a little loosey goosey to me. 

 

Honestly, RAR has always seemed a bit low to me, but that is a conversation for another day.

 

- E