My Players Never Block

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 Yeah, the whole "Magic User doesn't use a sword" trope as strictly D&D. I mean Geralt of Rivia uses a sword quite well.

Geralt is more of a cleric (powers arcane rather than divine) than a magic user. Now The Witcher does have a wizard known for his skill with swords. But in the series that is a rare thing.

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Geralt is more of a cleric (powers arcane rather than divine) than a magic user. Now The Witcher does have a wizard known for his skill with swords. But in the series that is a rare thing.

This is true, but, Just from my cursory examination that "The Witcher" et al, seems more of a Fantasy Hero campaign, than it does D&D though. Also the Armed Wizard is more common than the unarmed Nerd. The Unarmed Nerd trope seems to be mostly for city wizards, or cultists.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Scott Ruggels, what I find odd is that the wizards the Pawsplay points out are listed as influences by Gygax and Co. but the wmagic users are no where near the source material.

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

This is true, but, Just from my cursory examination that "The Witcher" et al, seems more of a Fantasy Hero campaign, than it does D&D though. Also the Armed Wizard is more common than the unarmed Nerd. The Unarmed Nerd trope seems to be mostly for city wizards, or cultists.

 

Most fantasy is more of a Fantasy Hero campaign simply because D&D is too inflexible and limited to accurately represent most fantasy fiction. 

[Ninja-Bear]

7 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

Most fantasy is more of a Fantasy Hero campaign simply because D&D is too inflexible and limited to accurately represent most fantasy fiction. 

Right. But my pondering is why is D&D so inflexible when it credits such works as inspiration?

[Old Man]

Because it's a historical miniatures ruleset base with random stuff added onto it to make it fantasyish.  I literally can't think of a single fantasy fiction piece that would be adequately covered by the D&D rules.  And that includes Vance.

 

Interestingly, D&D 5e now has a dodge mechanic.  And my 5e paladin can block, because he is a paladin, with a shield, who took Oath of Protection.  Otherwise, no block for you.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Because it's a historical miniatures ruleset base with random stuff added onto it to make it fantasyish.  I literally can't think of a single fantasy fiction piece that would be adequately covered by the D&D rules.  And that includes Vance.

 

Interestingly, D&D 5e now has a dodge mechanic.  And my 5e paladin can block, because he is a paladin, with a shield, who took Oath of Protection.  Otherwise, no block for you.

I understand that it was derived from a miniatures game. There’s a true story where Gygax sent his son’s character through a portal to Mars and his wizard then had to learn fighting since there’s no magic on Mars. Of what I read some of his original stuff was vary wild such as suggesting the DM having robots as monsters. So then why did he settle on a class structure which limited characters if his inspiration was so varied? 

 

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I understand that it was derived from a miniatures game. There’s a true story where Gygax sent his son’s character through a portal to Mars and his wizard then had to learn fighting since there’s no magic on Mars. Of what I read some of his original stuff was vary wild such as suggesting the DM having robots as monsters. So then why did he settle on a class structure which limited characters if his inspiration was so varied? 

 

 

Like I said, because he was a miniatures wargamer who grew D&D organically out of miniatures rules.  He started to get away from class based systems and move toward skill based systems with Dangerous Journeys and Lejendary Adventures, neither of which went anywhere.

 

He was still capable of blocking and dodging in real life, though.

[Scott Ruggels]

13 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Scott Ruggels, what I find odd is that the wizards the Pawsplay points out are listed as influences by Gygax and Co. but the wmagic users are no where near the source material.

I think it was a reflection of the strict class differentiation from the original three book set in that fighters were infantry, Clerics, who could only use maces, were support and logistics (create food and water), and mages were artillery, which generally. Can’t defend themselves if overrun. Basically shoehorning fantasy into an existing war game paradigm. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Since D&D was originally a fantasy supplement for the Chainmail wargame, its not surprising it stayed close to wargame patterns and systems.

[Ninja-Bear]

3 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Like I said, because he was a miniatures wargamer who grew D&D organically out of miniatures rules.  He started to get away from class based systems and move toward skill based systems with Dangerous Journeys and Lejendary Adventures, neither of which went anywhere.

 

He was still capable of blocking and dodging in real life, though.

And other miniature war games have wizards who can fight. Do vaguely remember hearing that he wasn’t keen on LofR and made allowances cause those miniatures were the rage back then. That might have more to do with it.

 

And he could always attempt to block and dodge in real. I don’t think you really understand how it works in real life.

And let me add sparring on the mat is different then fighting in a Men’s bathroom too. (Long story but the wrestler realized that wrestling didn’t prepare him for a dirty fighter either).

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

And other miniature war games have wizards who can fight. Do vaguely remember hearing that he wasn’t keen on LofR and made allowances cause those miniatures were the rage back then. That might have more to do with it.

 

And he could always attempt to block and dodge in real. I don’t think you really understand how it works in real life.

And let me add sparring on the mat is different then fighting in a Men’s bathroom too. (Long story but the wrestler realized that wrestling didn’t prepare him for a dirty fighter either).

 

At this point I'm not sure what your point is at all.

[HeroGM]

Garan of Riva, aka Belgaran.

 

And while he knows some sword play a lot of it comes from the Orb of Aldur.  IIRC he tied lifting the Sword of Riva once and could barely do it because of it's weight.

[pawsplay]

Chainmail allowed magic-users to use magical weaponry. So "the source material" is essentially Basic and Advanced D&D, not original D&D, nor any of the literary inspirations listed by Gygax in Appendix N.