Is Robin a DNPC?

[JmOz]

Got to thinking about how DNPC, Follower, and contacts interplay....

 

Then got to thinking about Batman...

Now I think we can all agree Batman is the poster child to the idea that the same character can be different characters depending on their setting

 

So, my question is, WHILE in the JLA would Robin be Batman's (useful) DNPC or a follower? 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sometimes, but sometimes he's just a low-end follower.

 

But I recommend to every one playing a sidekick   Its a ton of fun to be the plucky help to the big hero

[Hermit]

IIRC, it is technically against the rules to have a Follower also be a DNPC

I ignore this rule  and make Robin both. Usually he leans one way or another for me depending on story needs.

 

[unclevlad]

4 minutes ago, Hermit said:

IIRC, it is technically against the rules to have a Follower also be a DNPC

I ignore this rule  and make Robin both. Usually he leans one way or another for me depending on story needs.

 

 

That's the definition of sidekick.  Useful, sure, but also total Trouble Magnet for the main hero.

[massey]

In the JLA comics I read (late 90s), Robin wasn't anything.  That version of Batman's character sheet didn't bother to include Robin, because Robin virtually never showed up.

 

I think there are several "right" ways to build Batman and Robin.  One of them has Robin as a DNPC.  In this version, Robin is always getting kidnapped.  He's more of a pain than he is a help, and Batman often has to go out of his way to save him.  In another version, Robin is a Follower.  He's much more useful to Batman here, and sometimes can even save Batman's butt.  Anyway, he fights alongside Batman and is a competent adventurer on his own.

 

Another way to do it is to have two players, each with one of the characters.  Batman is more directly powerful, more efficiently built.  Robin on the other hand, may have some goofier powers with noncombat skills that Batman lacks.  So if Batman has a 12D6 Offensive Strike and a 6 Speed, Robin's best punch might be a 9D6 Martial Strike, but maybe he can hit an 11D6 Passing Strike when he swings in on his batline and kicks somebody.  He might also have several D6 of Luck, and maybe some combat skill levels that only apply when he's fighting with Batman (effectively, bad guys pay much more attention to Bats, making it easier for Robin).

 

Finally, I've toyed with the idea of making Robin the PC.  He's an average Champions martial artist with a utility belt and several powers that represent him being Batman's sidekick.  Chief among those is Summon: Batman, which he always uses when he gets captured by the bad guys.  So your 350 point Robin can bring in a 500 point Batman if the need arises.  This is basically "Robin as DNPC" just from the opposite direction.

[JmOz]

4 minutes ago, massey said:

In the JLA comics I read (late 90s), Robin wasn't anything.  That version of Batman's character sheet didn't bother to include Robin, because Robin virtually never showed up.

 

I think there are several "right" ways to build Batman and Robin.  One of them has Robin as a DNPC.  In this version, Robin is always getting kidnapped.  He's more of a pain than he is a help, and Batman often has to go out of his way to save him.  In another version, Robin is a Follower.  He's much more useful to Batman here, and sometimes can even save Batman's butt.  Anyway, he fights alongside Batman and is a competent adventurer on his own.

 

Another way to do it is to have two players, each with one of the characters.  Batman is more directly powerful, more efficiently built.  Robin on the other hand, may have some goofier powers with noncombat skills that Batman lacks.  So if Batman has a 12D6 Offensive Strike and a 6 Speed, Robin's best punch might be a 9D6 Martial Strike, but maybe he can hit an 11D6 Passing Strike when he swings in on his batline and kicks somebody.  He might also have several D6 of Luck, and maybe some combat skill levels that only apply when he's fighting with Batman (effectively, bad guys pay much more attention to Bats, making it easier for Robin).

 

Finally, I've toyed with the idea of making Robin the PC.  He's an average Champions martial artist with a utility belt and several powers that represent him being Batman's sidekick.  Chief among those is Summon: Batman, which he always uses when he gets captured by the bad guys.  So your 350 point Robin can bring in a 500 point Batman if the need arises.  This is basically "Robin as DNPC" just from the opposite direction.

I have in the past joked Blip was the character, Space Ghost was a follower, and the two kids were DNPC...

[HeroGM]

That would be Bandit.

[JmOz]

3 hours ago, HeroGM said:

That would be Bandit.

Bandit was the dog on Johnny Quest...though I guess he would qualify for the same Hero in disguise thing as well...

[Tjack]

    No, Batman was a NPC run by the GM and Robin was a low powered handout for players who were just trying out the game or who would only be there for one night.  This happened for a long time and the character accrued some points.

     Then somebody decided to use him for backstory,  re-wrote him and called him Nightwing.

[Greywind]

All depends on where in his career you're asking about. Follower, minion, sidekick, main character.

[Duke Bushido]

Werent there actual rules for sidekicks in one of the old editions?

 

I dont know who we ided to not port them forward, but I would like to thank them from the bottom of my heart.

[fdw3773]

19 hours ago, JmOz said:

Got to thinking about how DNPC, Follower, and contacts interplay....

 

Then got to thinking about Batman...

Now I think we can all agree Batman is the poster child to the idea that the same character can be different characters depending on their setting

 

So, my question is, WHILE in the JLA would Robin be Batman's (useful) DNPC or a follower? 

Hmmm....that's an interesting question. My frames of reference from Batman's time in the Justice League comics are a few issues from the late 1970s to early 1980s (before the "Justice League Detroit" era), Justice League International/America in the 1990s, and JLA in the late 1990s/early 2000s (Grant Morrison era, if I remember right). While Batman's portrayal and power level varied at times, Robin had no virtually no role in the several dozen or so issues I read and collected at one point, so I'm inclined to say that he would be a follower, not a Dependent NPC.

 

Off hand, I really can't recall Robin even being mentioned, either, even though throughout that span of time Batman had undergone Dick Grayson moving onto the Teen Titans and becoming Nightwing, getting Jason Todd, then Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and so on.

 

[assault]

Robin has almost never had any presence in JLA stories. (Except of course in that run which I never read... and that other one I never read either... etc.)

 

I'd simply leave him off JLA Batman's character sheet entirely.

 

On the other hand, there was the Superfriends version, which sometimes referred to the JLA. Robin could either be a PC or a follower, preferably the former.

 

Building a 'sidekick' on the same points as the character they follow is a bit tricky, but possible.

 

With Robin, the main difference from Batman would be in his characteristics, which would flow through into his skill rolls. If it was a fairly old version of Robin, the differences could be minimal, and the point costs could easily be made up elsewhere. Luck would be a good start, making up 15 points straight away. Naturally, it would be counterbalanced by 15 points of Unluck...

[archer]

In the Young Justice cartoon series, the younger heroes are being mentored by the Justice League and are often used as a covert ops team by the JL.

 

Robin there was neither a follower nor a DNPC. Dick Grayson changed from being Robin to Nightwing. Tim Drake became the  new Robin who was only loosely affiliated with Batman. Most of the new Robin's training was coming from the various JL mentors and the older members of Young Justice just as is happening for all of the youngest of the new heroes.

 

(Young Justice has been renewed for a 4th season probably in 2021 but has been moved to HBOMAX.)

 

The 1960's Robin was a DNPC as was the SuperFriends cartoon era Robin.

 

For the JLA/JLI era, Robin didn't show up enough to be either a follower or a DNPC. If I had to write him up for that era and connect him to Batman, I'd do it as a follower. 

[JmOz]

3 hours ago, archer said:

In the Young Justice cartoon series, the younger heroes are being mentored by the Justice League and are often used as a covert ops team by the JL.

 

Robin there was neither a follower nor a DNPC. Dick Grayson changed from being Robin to Nightwing. Tim Drake became the  new Robin who was only loosely affiliated with Batman. Most of the new Robin's training was coming from the various JL mentors and the older members of Young Justice just as is happening for all of the youngest of the new heroes.

 

(Young Justice has been renewed for a 4th season probably in 2021 but has been moved to HBOMAX.)

 

The 1960's Robin was a DNPC as was the SuperFriends cartoon era Robin.

 

For the JLA/JLI era, Robin didn't show up enough to be either a follower or a DNPC. If I had to write him up for that era and connect him to Batman, I'd do it as a follower. 

Funny Super Friends Robin struck me as a follower (useful for the most part) and a Dnpc in the JLA/I period, though I am not overly familiar with the comics of the era

 

[unclevlad]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:36 PM, massey said:

Finally, I've toyed with the idea of making Robin the PC.  He's an average Champions martial artist with a utility belt and several powers that represent him being Batman's sidekick.  Chief among those is Summon: Batman, which he always uses when he gets captured by the bad guys.  So your 350 point Robin can bring in a 500 point Batman if the need arises.  This is basically "Robin as DNPC" just from the opposite direction.

 

I was gonna say, that Summon is going to make Robin more than a bit more than 350...

 

But I realized...the more accurate way to do that summon is to slap No Conscious Control on it.  Cuz *that* is how it worked ALL the time.

[archer]

In the campy live-action Batman of the 1960's they had Bat-Shark Repellant.

 

The way Batman kept referring to Robin as "Old Chum", I kept expecting Batman to use Robin as Bat-Shark Attractant.

 

Because everyone knows that old chum is much more stinky than fresh chum.

 

 

[Hugh Neilson]

I suspect if someone researched the JLA history, Earth-Two Robin had more appearances than Earth-One Robin.  With 7 characters at the outset, tacking on sidekicks for a bigger crowd probably wasn't very appealing to the writers.

 

In the very old JSA/7 Soldiers format, the sidekicks appeared in the solo character chapters, but JLA started off with the same "small sub-team" chapters that JSA evolved to.

[Greywind]

Only time I recall a crossover that included Robin was when Raven influenced the Titans to attack the JLA and soundly beat them. Robin's yellow cape wrapped around Green Lantern's hand and a boot to the head put Jordan down.

[HeroGM]

New Teen Titans #4

 

Ribin pulls an Analyze.

Robin even....(tries to turn off the Town Yokel filter)

[Jhamin]

Does all of GL's extra PD go away when his ring touches something yellow? 

I"m willing to buy Green Lantern can't use big energy hands from the ring to grab Robin or punch him with ring-generated Boxing Glove while that cape is wrapped around his hand, but I'd think all his defenses would still work against that green slipper Robin is using to kick him with

[Tjack]

In response to Jhamin’s sig line;  Does that mean Princeton has Marilyn Monroe’s brain?

[HeroGM]

16 minutes ago, Jhamin said:

Does all of GL's extra PD go away when his ring touches something yellow? 

I"m willing to buy Green Lantern can't use big energy hands from the ring to grab Robin or punch him with ring-generated Boxing Glove while that cape is wrapped around his hand, but I'd think all his defenses would still work against that green slipper Robin is using to kick him with

 

Yeah but GL hasn't paid those points yet for always on.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah that was not particularly brilliant writing, the ring isn't unable to help GL just because its wrapped in a cloak, it just can't damage the cloak.  He'll still have the basic Green Lantern defenses while he wears the ring until it runs out of power.

[Hugh Neilson]

"Negated by the colour yellow"  was the trope for GL for a long time, and that story dates back to the early 1980's, as I recall.