Endurance Reserve: Restrictive Use

[JmOz]

The Following is from reading 6th edition and Champions Complete

 

Having a hard time wrapping my mind around this limitation

 

Conceptually I get it, but mechanically I do not see how this is EVER limiting

 

See, the way END reserve works is that you select powers that CAN use it, this limitation says "These powers can not use it", which of course is already done by not selecting them. So Iron Man says "Restrictive Use: only tech powers"...gee whiz all my powers are tech...No real limitation.   

 

An argument COULD be made that he can use his arc reactor to power the toaster, but as he has no transform bread power, the Toaster already cannot be powered....

 

Seems like a "No real way to be used limitation"\

 

But JmOz it is for Sci Fi settings and such to represent the engine on the ship...Ok, did you spend points on it in the first place?  No real point for the limitation then 

[Jhamin]

The only situation I might be OK with such a limit is if someone was buying a portable power source that only worked for some things.

 

"Glowing Crystal: End Reserve, only to power artifacts of the ancients"

 

So you can open the teleport portal with it, or power up the forgotten temple of Atlantis, but you will not be running the camp lights or the space heater from home depot off the glowing crystal.

 

The Power Supply for your Power Armor?  I'd be inclined to say that is pretty specific already & doesn't get the extra point costs.

[JmOz]

Are you talking about these?

[Hey I Can Chan]

First, I searched a variety of 6E books, and I couldn't find even one example of this Limitation in use.

 

With that in mind, the Limitation Restricted Use (-¼) "most commonly occurs with Endurance Reserves defined as large batteries or engines in Science Fiction settings that have many different types of technology" (E61 206). I'm building Arachnivore, an enormous robot spider. (Yes, the creator is well aware that, technically, an arachnivore eats spiders, but it sounded cool, okay?) Arachnivore is mostly powered by a big ol' solar cell Endurance Reserve, but Arachnivore's techno-organic net guns are powered by a much smaller and separate biochemical acid battery Endurance Reserve with a much higher REC so the net guns can quickly regrow their techno-organic webs.

 

Were I the GM, I might rule that both Endurance Reserves are eligible for Restricted Use: The creator could've just tied Arachnivore's net guns into the main Endurance Reserve and called it a day, but, because the creator is going for specific special effect, the creator earned a treat: the -¼ Limitation on the Endurance Reserves' costs. Further, I might rule that any of Arachnivore's present or future techno-organic advancements must be powered by the smaller Endurance Reserve while its electronics and mechanics must be powered by its bigger Reserve.

 

That cascade is likely the reason for the Limitation: Call it a reward for tying a special effect to a Reserve. That is, it's sort of like how Sunstroke can buy straight-up Endurance and apply to it the Limitation Can Only Be Used to Pay For Fire Powers: I mean, Sunstroke was probably going to use that END for fire powers anyway—therefore it won't be much of a Limitation—, but now that Limitation says that Sunstroke literally can't use that END for anything else, now and in the future. It locks the character into theme.

 

(Note that it's still probably less expensive to have Arachnivore's net guns powered by the main Battery (that's free) than it is to have them powered by a second Battery (minimum 1 Character Point), but maybe Arachnivore's creator is committed to type or the savings due to the Limitation on the big Battery were enough to pay for the littler Battery?)

 

I can't think of a situation wherein a character with a lone Reserve would qualify for Restricted Use, though.

[mallet]

It could also be used for a “backup” END reserve. 
 

like the power armor has its main END reserve for all its functions, but the players also buys a second “back up” END Reserve that only applies to Life Support and Flight. 
 

so if the main reserve ever goes down/is drained, etc...

 

the back up kicks in and he/she still has life support and can fly away to safety, but can’t shoot lasers any more or anything. 

[Duke Bushido]

Honestly, this is going to be a GM call, and case-by-case.

 

My original read of it had me thinking of things like-- well, literally like a battery:  This one only fits certain things; some things need exactly this one, but need more than one, etc, etc.

 

Not to say that this is the _only_ interpretation of it, but it's the one that let me go "oh; okay.  That's reasonable enough, I suppose," and then slog my way through the other books.

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, mallet said:

It could also be used for a “backup” END reserve. 
 

like the power armor has its main END reserve for all its functions, but the players also buys a second “back up” END Reserve that only applies to Life Support and Flight. 
 

so if the main reserve ever goes down/is drained, etc...

 

the back up kicks in and he/she still has life support and can fly away to safety, but can’t shoot lasers any more or anything. 

 

That might make sense for flight, but in many cases, flight should be considered a high-drain power.  LS and senses are 0 END...and Costs END will end up costing you a LOT more than it saves, I suspect.  The concept you're bringing up is fine in reality;  it's just the translation to game terms that might break down.  

I think Hey I Can Chan hit the nail on the head:  it feels very tough to assert a limited-power limitation for a single END reserve;  it's plausible in a variety of constructions where multiple END Reserves are in play.  And some things can be done for no points, or VERY few.  The LS and sensors might take a -1/4 limitation for "primary or secondary END Reserve capacity must be > 0" where the secondary END reserve also has "can only be applied to flight"...where the END reserve *isn't* big enough to run the flight for very long, or at anything close to full power/speed.

 

To go back to OP's point, there are core cases where certain limitations simply don't apply to certain powers.  The rules *allow* it;  that doesn't mean it makes sense...gestures?  Incantations?  Lockout?  Requires a PER roll?  It's not worth trying to identify when it makes no sense...because in some genres perhaps it might.  And I'll always support the core point that limitations need to be sensible and meaningful;  they need to be truly limiting *in some way* or forget it.  What "limiting" means can be debated;  we've had that discussion with, say, Perceivable.

[LoneWolf]

This limitation is one that is designed more for heroic campaigns where the characters are not paying points for equipment.   So Iron Man would not be using it. But If the GM is building a starship that you can hook up electrical devices to power or recharge it may be appropriate.  

 

Not every power or limitation are appropriate for every campaign. 
 

[HeroGM]

Only for spells...fantasy....-1/2 or -1? I'd say 1/2, players want to argue

[JmOz]

3 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

This limitation is one that is designed more for heroic campaigns where the characters are not paying points for equipment.   So Iron Man would not be using it. But If the GM is building a starship that you can hook up electrical devices to power or recharge it may be appropriate.  

 

Not every power or limitation are appropriate for every campaign. 
 

My issue with that is if you are not paying points for it does it really need a limitation value...

[LoneWolf]

In some cases the cost of an item in currency is based on how many points it cost.  In those cases putting a limitation on the power makes it cost less in credits or whatever you are using for cash.  

[eepjr24]

On 12/10/2020 at 1:11 PM, JmOz said:

My issue with that is if you are not paying points for it does it really need a limitation value...

LoneWolf pointed out one reason. Another for me is that when you create something for use an item that no points are paid for sometimes players want to build a custom one and pay points for it so they don't lose it frequently or the like. 

 

And I think it works perfectly for the literal battery sense of the End Reserve, where Electrical Power Pack A powers devices that take A slots, Electrical Power Pack B powers devices that take B slots and Power Pack C is really supplying hydrogen for combusting in devices that use it. Maybe there are devices that can use A or B but not C, maybe there are devices that take one of each of those for a single use.

 

- E 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Given that you specify what an END reserve can charge when each power is built I am having a hard time thinking of a way that it would actually be used.

[eepjr24]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Given that you specify what an END reserve can charge when each power is built I am having a hard time thinking of a way that it would actually be used.

That's true for powers that players have. But for things like gadgets that are bought with $ not points...

Quote

A character with an Endurance Reserve must decide which powers draw energy from the Reserve, and which draw energy from his personal END. A power can normally only draw energy from one or the other — it can’t switch from one energy source to another unless it has the appropriate Advantage (see below). Characters can Push powers that get their END from an Endurance Reserve.

So Player1 has an off the shelf Blaster. It is powered only by END Reserves. It takes Type A Fusion batteries or Type B Fission batteries. Those batteries could take a Restricted Use limitation if the GM felt it was warranted. Generally, I would only see that happening if say Hydrogen generating batteries were the most common by far and powered most things. 

 

Niche case? Sure. There are things in Hero that only apply to a specific genre or even sub-genre generally. I guess I get a little perplexed by why this comes up as a problem. Unless it seems broken or mis-cost it can just be ignored. There is even a specific example in there similar to what I posted that explains when it would likely be used.

 

- E