The Fox, costume Design

[JmOz]

So major character in my last campeign, who is also going to be very important to a number of my Hall of Champions project is the Fox

 

The Fox is, at his core, an homage to three classic unpowered heroes

 

Zorro, Phantom, and Batman. There might be a bit of Katana in there as well, So this is what I came up with for a costume but would love a critique.  I really want those three characters to come through without being a pure rip off of....

[Christougher]

Two of three thumbs up.  Batman is very clear, Zorro is only slightly with the sword, the folded gloves and boots could be either.

The Phantom I think of wore a purple bodysuit and black headwear, and that doesn't come through.  If it's a different Phantom, my opinion isn't qualified to answer.

 

Most people think of foxes as orange/white.  I can understand darkening the colors for a grim avenger type, but the colors read more brown to me.  A dark or black cape/cloak would feel more Zorro, and allow him to hide a brighter or different colored bodysuit.

[JmOz]

So including a few pics of the originals.  I did darken the red/orange I think of foxes to an orange/brown.  Will consider darkening the cape.  

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gtqTizFiWN0/TGgnkjBWYyI/AAAAAAAACB0/AU5gsiEFG0g/s400/Douglas+Fairbanks+Sr+Zorro.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gtqTizFiWN0/TGgnkjBWYyI/AAAAAAAACB0/AU5gsiEFG0g/s1600/Douglas+Fairbanks+Sr+Zorro.jpg

[JmOz]

Basics on the character

 

Basically he is a generational ghost who walks type hero (People believe the longevity means he is supernatural or urban myth).  Begins as Zorro (150 years ago) but evolves into Batman in the present (ok, my image of Batman who is super capable but not as capable as Bats is these days...Bats at the turn of the millennium basically) 

[archer]

Maybe a color change for the briefs area so his crotch doesn't stand out quite so much.

 

I'm not an artist to know how difficult changes would be but I'd extend the utility belt concept to include at least wrist compartments and boot top compartments. Maybe a series of neckline compartments.

 

I'd think a futuristic gadget guy would have even more need for compartments than a current era hero. And not every compartment would need to be outright gadgets. There's also lockpicks, medical kit, futuristic burner phone, inventor skill basic toolkit, forensics kit, antidotes, chalk, pen, his hovercraft keys, fake family photos to lead his enemies into a prepared trap, etc. 

 

And it'd be more convenient for the character to not have to reach for his belt every time he needed to access anything at all.

 

Obviously the utility belt contents will have changed over the centuries. It might be interesting if the current Fox had examples of utility belt items (or perhaps a couple of full utility belts) of his predecessors. 

 

At least one of the Foxes will have made the clasp of the cape into a Focus for something, even if the current Fox no longer does.

 

The cape looks detachable. Maybe capes for every occasion: fire resistant cape when facing Flame-Face, cold resistant cape when facing Cold Front, absorption cape, etc. 

 

Part of the Fox's advantage might be that there's so many legends and news stories about the Fox over the centuries that no one really knows what the current Fox is capable of. A Fox who grew up on a heavy gravity planet could be super-strong by Earth standards. A Fox who liked incendiary grenades. A Fox who was phobic about fire. A Fox who wouldn't kill. A Fox who was a war hero and didn't mind killing when needed. A Fox who was a loner. A Fox who called the police before going into every situation. A Fox who could precisely imitate the voices of previous Foxes. A Fox who pretended to be the one and only immortal Fox....

 

Combine that with the changing roster of gadgets and you already have a hero who is pretty confusing to a casual observer even before he really leaned into being confusing.

[JmOz]

6 minutes ago, archer said:

Maybe a color change for the briefs area so his crotch doesn't stand out quite so much.

 

I'm not an artist to know how difficult changes would be but I'd extend the utility belt concept to include at least wrist compartments and boot top compartments. Maybe a series of neckline compartments.

 

I'd think a futuristic gadget guy would have even more need for compartments than a current era hero. And not every compartment would need to be outright gadgets. There's also lockpicks, medical kit, futuristic burner phone, inventor skill basic toolkit, forensics kit, antidotes, chalk, pen, his hovercraft keys, fake family photos to lead his enemies into a prepared trap, etc. 

 

And it'd be more convenient for the character to not have to reach for his belt every time he needed to access anything at all.

 

Obviously the utility belt contents will have changed over the centuries. It might be interesting if the current Fox had examples of utility belt items (or perhaps a couple of full utility belts) of his predecessors. 

 

At least one of the Foxes will have made the clasp of the cape into a Focus for something, even if the current Fox no longer does.

 

The cape looks detachable. Maybe capes for every occasion: fire resistant cape when facing Flame-Face, cold resistant cape when facing Cold Front, absorption cape, etc. 

 

Part of the Fox's advantage might be that there's so many legends and news stories about the Fox over the centuries that no one really knows what the current Fox is capable of. A Fox who grew up on a heavy gravity planet could be super-strong by Earth standards. A Fox who liked incendiary grenades. A Fox who was phobic about fire. A Fox who wouldn't kill. A Fox who was a war hero and didn't mind killing when needed. A Fox who was a loner. A Fox who called the police before going into every situation. A Fox who could precisely imitate the voices of previous Foxes. A Fox who pretended to be the one and only immortal Fox....

 

Combine that with the changing roster of gadgets and you already have a hero who is pretty confusing to a casual observer even before he really leaned into being confusing.

 

Character is a modern day.  The original was centuries ago (Not future)

 

Clasp is a camera and communicator....

 

Old gadgets are planned....plus the sword is from the first Fox

[archer]

2 minutes ago, JmOz said:

 

Character is a modern day.  The original was centuries ago

 

Clasp is a camera and communicator....

 

Old gadgets are planned....plus the sword is from the first Fox

 

Ah, apologies. My mistaken impression was that he was part of a setting in a (near or far) future Star Knights thing rather than set in the current era.

[steriaca]

I'm sure he has a set of Fox-bolos, Fox-Handcuffs, Fox-Tranqulizer darts, and such. Prehaps a Fox-A-Rang or two also.

[JmOz]

6 minutes ago, archer said:

 

Ah, apologies. My mistaken impression was that he was part of a setting in a (near or far) future Star Knights thing rather than set in the current era.

 

Think of him as Batman and the Star Knigihts as Green Lantern (or if you remember the 90's Darkstars) and it all fits together well

 

5 minutes ago, steriaca said:

I'm sure he has a set of Fox-bolos, Fox-Handcuffs, Fox-Tranqulizer darts, and such. Prehaps a Fox-A-Rang or two also.

I have ALOT OF Gadgets written up, most of them 30 AP and less than 16 Real points for him...I think the number of gadgets is around 100

[archer]

1 hour ago, JmOz said:

 

Think of him as Batman and the Star Knigihts as Green Lantern (or if you remember the 90's Darkstars) and it all fits together well

 

I have ALOT OF Gadgets written up, most of them 30 AP and less than 16 Real points for him...I think the number of gadgets is around 100

 

If for some catastrophic reason you end up deciding not to publish anything at all, I'd still be very interested in seeing your write-up of the gadgets if you're willing to post them.

[JmOz]

1 minute ago, archer said:

 

If for some catastrophic reason you end up deciding not to publish anything at all, I'd still be very interested in seeing your write-up of the gadgets if you're willing to post them.

You might have seen them before....they were based mostly on the old Batman TAS show....But the first of a multi part series is planned after the star knights (so End of FEB).  It will be mostly my thoughts on VPP's as Gadget Pools and probably about 10-15 of the most iconic pieces.  It will also feature one legendary piece (his sword), and SynthTech armor.  Later chapters will concentrate on different classifications of geer (One on grenades, another on melee weapons, etc...).  Look for Fox Armory coming to you soon   

[JmOz]

Back on topic, you feel more pouches. I will be avoiding 90's X-Men aesthetics, but will consider it (Did we ever find out what Cyclops and Cable had in those pouches...).  BTW love the name Cold Front...might steal it....

[archer]

1 minute ago, JmOz said:

You might have seen them before....they were based mostly on the old Batman TAS show....But the first of a multi part series is planned after the star knights (so End of FEB).  It will be mostly my thoughts on VPP's as Gadget Pools and probably about 10-15 of the most iconic pieces.  It will also feature one legendary piece (his sword), and SynthTech armor.  Later chapters will concentrate on different classifications of geer (One on grenades, another on melee weapons, etc...).  Look for Fox Armory coming to you soon   

 

Oh, I'm sure I've seen or written-up variations on a lot of them before. I'm something of a utility bely aficionado. I like large numbers of things written up for specific power levels that I could theoretically plug-and-play without having to go through and re-create or figure out which piece of paper in which notebook that particular idea is written on,

[JmOz]

4 minutes ago, archer said:

 

Oh, I'm sure I've seen or written-up variations on a lot of them before. I'm something of a utility bely aficionado. I like large numbers of things written up for specific power levels that I could theoretically plug-and-play without having to go through and re-create or figure out which piece of paper in which notebook that particular idea is written on,

Kind of how this all started.  I watched and wrote down each item used in Batman TAS & Justice League (By Batman) then stated them up.  All for 30 AP.  There is one power (Batgirl uses against Livewire) that has tormented me for years...

 

When I started to think of publishing it was when I created the Fox.  I liked the idea of the Phantom's legacy aspect, then the Zorro connection (Batman has a lot of him in there), and well here we are 6-7 years later....

[archer]

1 minute ago, JmOz said:

Back on topic, you feel more pouches. I will be avoiding 90's X-Men aesthetics, but will consider it (Did we ever find out what Cyclops and Cable had in those pouches...).  BTW love the name Cold Front...might steal it....

 

I think it is possible to go overboard on pouches for characters who have no need for them (Fashion-Statement Cyclops is a great example).

 

But for characters who have a real utility belt which they use and skills which could benefit from having some kind of tool kit, there's really not such a thing as too many pouches as long as the person can move.

 

Toolkit for every science skill.

Kit for every skill which needs a kit (inventor, demolitions, forensic medicine, paramedic, disguise, Analyze, kitty treats for Animal Handler, Bugging, cash for Bribery, contact list for Bureaucratics, makeup for Charm, Climbing gear, Flash drives for Computer Programming, Criminology, Forgery, marked cards or weighted dice for gambling, Electronics, Lockpicks. Mechanics tools, Navigation, various professional skills, Security Systems, Survival, Weaponsmith)

 

Fake ID for various cover ID's

Lightning Calculator

Eidetic Memory

Lightsleep

Simulate Death

Phrase guide if you don't speak the language

 

Haven't even touched real powers.

[Duke Bushido]

 

 

First off:

 

Love it!   I love the idea behind it, and the unpowered parts of it.  I confess: I'm not big on generational heroes, though there is one in my campaign world (my daughter's first character.  Really lengthy post on that process way back when).

 

 

If you are genuinely soliciting feedback on the costume, I'm pretty much with Christougher:

 

5 hours ago, Christougher said:

Two of three thumbs up.  Batman is very clear, Zorro is only slightly with the sword, the folded gloves and boots could be either.

The Phantom I think of wore a purple bodysuit and black headwear, and that doesn't come through.  If it's a different Phantom, my opinion isn't qualified to answer.

 

Most people think of foxes as orange/white.  I can understand darkening the colors for a grim avenger type, but the colors read more brown to me.  A dark or black cape/cloak would feel more Zorro, and allow him to hide a brighter or different colored bodysuit.

 

Everything he said, including the three thumbs up.

 

I would, if you are tying direct homage to the characters you mentioned, reduce the amount of Batman.  Not because it's not a valid influence, but because there's an awful lot of it, to the point that he looks like Sword Batman.   With the brown color scheme and the amount of Batman, I personally-- and I know crap about comics compared to most people who play this game-- I thought "The Owl with a Sword."

 

 When you think of a fox-- no; sorry.  When _I_ think of a fox (because there is nothing wrong with what you've got going, and your enjoyment should be the final decision maker, regardless of my ridiculous opinion.    ), I tend to think lithe, spry, agile-- almost "cat-like, but having fun doing it and maybe being a little dopey now and again just because that's fun, too.   In that vein, I'd personally like to see a less "padded" look.  Same with the big heavy cloak / cape.  To me (again-- just me, and ultimately, it doesn't matter)-- the cloak says heavy, ponderous, dragging-- the horror-type elements that Batman allegedly went in for way back when before it became just stylish to swish it around from frame to frame.

 

I totally get the mask is fox ears, but Batman has owned that armored-face-with-horns look for so long at this point that it it just says "Batman."

 

my thoughts would be to go with a face covering more in line with one of your other inspirations-- Zoro's bandana-that-covers-the-eyes has always, to me, held that sort of playful, cocky swagger I tend to associate with foxes.  Maybe something like that, perhaps with very small ears, not too unlike Cheshire Cat's 4e mask ('cause the new one is...    not the best look he's ever had.  Granted, triangular, broad-based, black-edged fox ears-- stick with that motif.

 

If you like the idea of him having a cape, perhaps a lighter, shorter one-- akin to Zoro's cape from the movie serials as opposed to the much longer one that crept in because it was cool to see flapping behind him-- something that doesn't actually require manhandling, and will never really get in his way.  Zoro's old cape, Captain Marvel's (the real one: SHAZAM!) half-cape; something like that.

 

I also like Christougher's idea making him more black / orange / red / white.  You are completely correct:  there are brown foxes; there are gray foxes.  Typically, though, people here "fox" and they think of "those playful orange ones you see on the internet."  For brand recognition, you might want to consider including at least a bit of orange, and maybe black "points" in the ears, gloves, and boots.  To be clear, however: brown foxes are real, and you're reasonably accurate with the colors.

 

For Phantom influence-- if you are wanting that to show-- well, you've opted for supers-style instead of poofy-shirt style, and that's got a bit of Phantom in it.  bold colors (purple) reinforce the idea that the orange/ red/white/black combo might be the way to go.  If you're not hip to the Zoro face wrapper, then the Phantom-style "individual eye masks" are nice and pointy and would reinforce-- perhaps even draw attention to-- small "fox ears" at the top of the head piece.  Zoro folded boots and similar gloves would make for lively and fun cavalier-like costuming, and would also make excellent "points" by being rendered in black.  A different-colored set of trunks and a pair of holsters (or oversized "pouches," if you're one of those pouch guys) would draw the feel of the Phantom as well.

 

Of course, all of this at once kind of downplays the Batman influence......

 

So, ultimately, I got nothin'.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JmOz]

On phone at work but maybe drop Cape to give more phantom vibe

[Duke Bushido]

Sweet!

 

I'm surprised at how excited I am to see that. 

 

 

[JmOz]

Still tinkering, but here a rough of where I am

[archer]

For me, the cape didn't come across as Batman-ish at all. And the two layered effect of the cape added a lot to the character.

 

 

[Tjack]

Much better!  The cuffed over gloves & boots give it a nice swashbuckler kind of thing.

[JmOz]

I am leaning towards the cape version personaly... Feel the uncaped isn't dynamic enough...I do like the arrow and two tone on the mask

[Duke Bushido]

8 minutes ago, JmOz said:

I am leaning towards the cape version personaly... Feel the uncaped isn't dynamic enough...I do like the arrow and two tone on the mask

 

 

It's your creation, of course, Sir, and you must go with what makes you the happiest.

 

Like TJack, I feel the character looks much more "foxy" without it, though: the cape is heavy and oppressive.  Foxes and lithe and almost fragile in appearance.  And to be honest, I can't imagine trying to even fake sword fight at anything about SPD1 with a floor-dragging quilt pulling on my shoulders and wrapped around my knees and elbows.

 

WIthout the cape, he _looks_ quicker, and more dashing.

[JmOz]

 

9 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

It's your creation, of course, Sir, and you must go with what makes you the happiest.

 

Like TJack, I feel the character looks much more "foxy" without it, though: the cape is heavy and oppressive.  Foxes and lithe and almost fragile in appearance.  And to be honest, I can't imagine trying to even fake sword fight at anything about SPD1 with a floor-dragging quilt pulling on my shoulders and wrapped around my knees and elbows.

 

WIthout the cape, he _looks_ quicker, and more dashing.

 

I get it, but have to keep with his IRL primary purpose (as a showman for gadgets).  I also agree with archer that the cape ads a dynamic look.  It is however to heavy as is.  Looking at options....

 

Also I like the arrow so it does not work to have it tie at the neck

[Duke Bushido]

I stand by my statement that it's far more important that _you_ are happy with the character's look than it is that anyone else is happy with it.

 

I only restate it as assurance that the next question is nothing more than a request for enlightenment:

 

Your comment "I have to keep with his IRL primary purpose (as a showman for gadgets)" has left me a bit confused:   while I _think_ you're talking about the belt-of-many-pouches that gadget guys are known for, I am curious to know if you see some sort of cape-gadget guy relationship.

 

 

Thanks.