What would a time-traveler want from the Valdorian Age?

[AlgaeNymph]

A time-traveling superhuman (or other sapient) might obviously want to visit, for example, the era of Galactic Champions for the easily-acquired tech, or the Turakian Age for the (relatively) easily-acquired magic.  But what would the Valdorian Age have to interest a time-traveler?  I suppose easily-acquired workspace free of interference (assuming they can bring or make the infrastructure), but can't think of anything else.  Even in that best case there wouldn't be any reason to interact with the locals beyond maybe a power trip.  Any other ideas for what one could get from such a time and place?

[Steve]

Well, since the official take is that the Valdorian Age is a time of reduced magical power, it might end up being a one-way trip. Time travel based on superpowers or rubber science may be able to get you there, but then they don't work again while you are there. Cue Doctor Destroyer in a rage when his technology suddenly fails, and he finds himself trapped amongst a bunch of primitive savages.

 

This actually makes the Valdorian Age an interesting possibility for exiling superhumans, or exiling people in general actually.

 

The other reason to go there might be to pick up some surviving artifact that is harder to acquire in the Turakian Age.

[Tjack]

31 minutes ago, Steve said:

Well, since the official take is that the Valdorian Age is a time of reduced magical power, it might end up being a one-way trip. Time travel based on superpowers or rubber science may be able to get you there, but then they don't work again while you are there. Cue Doctor Destroyer in a rage when his technology suddenly fails, and he finds himself trapped amongst a bunch of primitive savages.

 

This actually makes the Valdorian Age an interesting possibility for exiling superhumans, or exiling people in general actually.

 

The other reason to go there might be to pick up some surviving artifact that is harder to acquire in the Turakian Age.

   
    Sending someone like Dr. D back in time even without his armor is a horrible idea.  As proof of my opinion I present “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court”.  How long do you think it would take him to go from being “Sir Boss” power behind the throne to Ceasar of the New Empire.  And who knows what that does to the time line? 
   There’s a series of adventures for some GM in this...  Some bonehead sends Destroyer back in time and the heroes have to go back and stop him in the dark ages without their tech based powers or gadgets.

[archer]

4 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

A time-traveling superhuman (or other sapient) might obviously want to visit, for example, the era of Galactic Champions for the easily-acquired tech, or the Turakian Age for the (relatively) easily-acquired magic.  But what would the Valdorian Age have to interest a time-traveler?  I suppose easily-acquired workspace free of interference (assuming they can bring or make the infrastructure), but can't think of anything else.  Even in that best case there wouldn't be any reason to interact with the locals beyond maybe a power trip.  Any other ideas for what one could get from such a time and place?

 

Extinct animals

 

People for slaves

 

People to provide spare parts for the transplant body banks

 

Find treasures that have been lost over time.

 

Plant, farm, and harvest pearls from oyster beds in unpolluted oceans and without having to file environmental impact statements.

 

Sports fishing.

 

Big game hunting.

 

Privative living adventures. 

 

Survivalist TV series.

 

Sports betting. The sponsor intentionally tries to trigger a fight between rival kingdoms, perhaps by staging cross-border raids. Take bets on the exact date and time of the invasion, death count, winner, etc.

 

Get to minerals before they've been mined out in later ages and when there's no opposition from superheroes.

 

Maybe to see or get to passing celestial objects which wouldn't be easily accessible in the future.

 

Pretend to bury treasure on Oak Island so they can watch generations of TV shows about treasure hunters who drive themselves crazy trying to get to the "buried treasure".

[archer]

 

And you might have humanitarian groups trying to introduce helpful things from the future into the past to make life easier.

 

For example, there's a heck of a lot of crops which weren't developed until the 1600's-1800's through cross-breeding and intense selective breeding efforts.

 

Think of high-yield potatoes, corn, wheat, oats, and a host of other crops being introduced centuries before they were available as they are in their current forms. Or if nothing else, becoming available on continents where they aren't native.

[Duke Bushido]

Affordable housing.

 

 

Seriously, though:

 

This is one among many of the reasons I think the official "it's all one continuity" stance is a huge mistake.

 

[Lord Liaden]

First thought: eliminate VIPER's serpent-god patron, Nama, by attacking him in this low-magic time when he's most vulnerable. This era is when Nama and his brother and sister first found the caves whose strange vapors granted them immortality. They could be killed while they're still normal serpents, before achieving enormous size and sapience. Kind of like the concept of murdering Hitler as a child. Mind you, The Valdorian Age specifies that the serpents aren't from Il-Ryveras, the part of the globe which VA describes. They'd be from elsewhere in the world surveyed in The Atlantean Age, but that book doesn't mention them. I have my own theory, though, which I think fits the available histories quite well. (Steve Long admitted that he forgot to include the three serpents when he wrote AA.)

 

Another target could be the Towers of the First and Last Sunset, abandoned capital of the Drindrish and apparently a place of lingering supernatural horrors. They could contain some artifact of magic or book of lore that heroes from the future need to acquire; or perhaps there's a reason why those heroes want to learn the final fate of those descendants of the Elves.

 

I'll give it more thought and get back to you.

 

EDIT: Oh, I thought of another possibility: magical materials. As Il-Ryveras is part of the same global configuration containing the island of Atlantis and the Lemurian Archipelago, time-travelers could travel to those lands when they were on the surface, and before the Atlanteans and Lemurians inhabited them, to take all the orichalcum and/or ignaetium they want. Of course they might still have to deal with hostile natives and monsters, but that's better than confronting whole magic-packing armies.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

There's a plant called the purple orchid which only grows in the Ylsythen Jungles on the northern continent of Pelosa. It's the base component of various recreational narcotics and hallucinogens, and its smoke was used by necromancers to induce a dream state during which their reserves of spell-powering vitality were renewed. Obviously the orchid is extinct in the modern world, but it could be a key ingredient in some type of healing or other potion, or used to induce visions revealing a vital piece of information.

 

2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Seriously, though:

 

This is one among many of the reasons I think the official "it's all one continuity" stance is a huge mistake.

 

 

It's fair to decide it's a mistake, but I prefer to view it as an exploitable opportunity.

[Lord Liaden]

And pursuant to that last point, while the following is not directly relevant to AlgaeNymph's initial request, it does build on the Valdorian Age and the unified time line. As I've mentioned here, I often apprise and advise the Champions Online community about Champions Universe "lore." I collaborated with one player to develop a new PC for her inspired by VA. Here is her biography for the character:

 

Viviane
The Last Witch-Queen of Abyzinia

Once, she ruled an empire.

Viviane the Abyzinian was born to the commonfolk of that empire, her magical abilities untapped until the day she discovered a lost relic of an ancient age - a mystical gauntlet clutching a magically-preserved skull; both had belonged to the Turakian wizard-king Ansgar the Twice-Lived. The latent magic she possessed was enough to rouse the King of Khrisulia's spirit, and the ancient wizard's relic combined with his tutelage made Viviane the greatest sorceress Abyzinia had seen in generations. She ascended the throne, but though she ruled wisely and was beloved by the commonfolk of the Empire, the nobles took offense at her 'staining' the throne with her common blood. Besieged on all sides, she was forced to turn to the demonic powers she had sought to avoid to protect her reign - and in the end the sacrifice doomed her. Betrayed and defeated, she was dragged away into Hell.

For millennia uncounted she was imprisoned in that dark realm, her power broken and her spirit with it; only Ansgar's company kept her from going completely mad and surrendering to the darkness and evil that surrounded her. Time disappeared. The world changed. Then, one day, Ansgar spoke to his companion with horror that not even Hell could bring. Something had stirred across the cosmos, a darkness thought long-sealed had awoken. Kal-Turak the Ravager of Men had been loosed once more, into an age unprepared to face his wickedness - but his awakening also served as a beacon for the other lich to follow. Though it took decades, he was able to guide Viviane back to the mortal realm...

..and beneath a bloody moon on Halloween of 2018, the Last Witch-Queen of Abyznia and her Turakian counselor collapsed through the realms into a world neither recognized....

[Steve]

18 hours ago, Tjack said:

   
    Sending someone like Dr. D back in time even without his armor is a horrible idea.  As proof of my opinion I present “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court”.  How long do you think it would take him to go from being “Sir Boss” power behind the throne to Ceasar of the New Empire.  And who knows what that does to the time line? 
   There’s a series of adventures for some GM in this...  Some bonehead sends Destroyer back in time and the heroes have to go back and stop him in the dark ages without their tech based powers or gadgets.

 

It's actually not as bad as that. Remember, he needs that armor to keep alive as he is very, very old. Back in the Valdorian Age with its diseases unknown to modern times, he might last only days or weeks once his armor fails. At the outside, he might last a year or two. Hardly enough time to make a real, lasting impression.

[AlgaeNymph]

19 hours ago, archer said:

 

People for slaves

The Empress finds slavery abhorrent, as do I.  However, freeing slaves and training them might be an option.  : )

 

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

As Il-Ryveras is part of the same global configuration containing the island of Atlantis and the Lemurian Archipelago, time-travelers could travel to those lands when they were on the surface, and before the Atlanteans and Lemurians inhabited them, to take all the orichalcum and/or ignaetium they want.

 

16 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

There's a plant called the purple orchid which only grows in the Ylsythen Jungles on the northern continent of Pelosa. It's the base component of various recreational narcotics and hallucinogens, and its smoke was used by necromancers to induce a dream state during which their reserves of spell-powering vitality were renewed.

 

16 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I collaborated with one player to develop a new PC for her inspired by VA.

Both good ideas.  And the Valdorian PC now has me thinking about a present day superhuman who, after getting killed, went back in time to work with a necromancer.  Their goal is to get back to the present day, get back their life, and get back their power.  Though how would one do that?

[archer]

19 minutes ago, AlgaeNymph said:

The Empress finds slavery abhorrent, as do I.  However, freeing slaves and training them might be an option.  : )

 

 

I was speaking of slavers coming from the future to the past in order to kidnap people in the past for the purpose of enslaving them then returning those victims to the future.

 

The Empress might find slavery abhorrent. But I'm sure people from the future will have access to enough trinkets be able to hire unscrupulous people to help them.

 

And while I'm not personally familiar with the Empress, I'm under the impression that she doesn't have any means at her disposal which would allow her to block time travelers from popping up anywhere they want, then doing whatever they want, and disappearing back into the time stream again before her sworn loyalists can get to remote locations to stop the time traveling miscreants.

[Steve]

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

There's a plant called the purple orchid which only grows in the Ylsythen Jungles on the northern continent of Pelosa. It's the base component of various recreational narcotics and hallucinogens, and its smoke was used by necromancers to induce a dream state during which their reserves of spell-powering vitality were renewed. Obviously the orchid is extinct in the modern world, but it could be a key ingredient in some type of healing or other potion, or used to induce visions revealing a vital piece of information.

 

 

It's fair to decide it's a mistake, but I prefer to view it as an exploitable opportunity.

 

Plants and animals would be an excellent resource for time travelers to come for.

 

I earlier mentioned diseases unknown to modern times, which the Valdorian Age probably has an abundance of. Something could even be brought back accidentally, and the time traveler becomes Patient Zero.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, AlgaeNymph said:

The Empress finds slavery abhorrent, as do I.  However, freeing slaves and training them might be an option.  : )

 

 

Wait, does this scenario you're speculating about involve Istvatha V'han? That would bring up a whole bunch of other issues. And if you're considering involving a time-traveling conqueror from the Champions Universe, IMHO Korrex would be much more likely to meddle in Earth's pre-historic eras than V'han.

 

1 hour ago, AlgaeNymph said:

Both good ideas.  And the Valdorian PC now has me thinking about a present day superhuman who, after getting killed, went back in time to work with a necromancer.  Their goal is to get back to the present day, get back their life, and get back their power.  Though how would one do that?

 

There are necromancers on Champs Earth in the present day, not all entirely malevolent; and several beings who have found ways to function post-death. If you like I could give you more info on this thread, or via PM if you don't want it to drift too far. Your thread, your rules.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

And while I'm not personally familiar with the Empress, I'm under the impression that she doesn't have any means at her disposal which would allow her to block time travelers from popping up anywhere they want, then doing whatever they want, and disappearing back into the time stream again before her sworn loyalists can get to remote locations to stop the time traveling miscreants.

 

If we are indeed talking about the Empress of a Billion Dimensions, Istvatha V'han, that is not entirely the case, at least within the vast territories under her control. As described on Book Of The Empress pp 154-55, her Temporal Security Patrol have the means to monitor the Imperial time-stream looking for unauthorized time travelers, undesired changes to Imperial history, and the like. They will pursue such offenders to apprehend them and prevent commission of crimes or actual historical changes.

[archer]

1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If we are indeed talking about the Empress of a Billion Dimensions, Istvatha V'han, that is not entirely the case, at least within the vast territories under her control. As described on Book Of The Empress pp 154-55, her Temporal Security Patrol have the means to monitor the Imperial time-stream looking for unauthorized time travelers, undesired changes to Imperial history, and the like. They will pursue such offenders to apprehend them and prevent commission of crimes or actual historical changes.

 

Ah, I'd assumed he was talking about some backwater Empress from the Valdorian Age, since the Valdorian Age was the topic of conversation and he didn't give any other context.

[Lord Liaden]

Completely understandable assumption. But AFAIK Il-Ryveras at the default start date doesn't have a ruler claiming the title of Empress; and the closest to it would be the Witch-Queen of Abyzinia, a society based on slavery. V'han, however, is an Empress known to hate and bar the practice. Which in connection with time travel led me to guess this might involve her. Could be wrong, of course.

[Duke Bushido]

2 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

Though how would one do that?

 

Going back can be whatever mechanism you want: the magic works on this end.

 

Coming forward can be as complicated as you want, or as simple as Life Support: Immortal.

[Lord Liaden]

She might have been referring to the "get your life and your power back after you die" part.

 

As I hinted earlier, there are some Champs Uni precedents which don't require time travel.

[archer]

I'm really fond of the idea of mining.

 

People from the future know where all the mines in the world have been and where all the best ore was. They know where gold strikes would be made

 

If you're wanting future people to interact with locals, have the future people hire the locals to do the hard work of digging for the ore. With all of history to choose from, there'll be plenty of places where a brute force mining operating aided by a little engineering skill from the future could reap big rewards.

 

And there's lots of hooks for adventurers and different ways they could sandbox what's happening.

 

They could infiltrate the miners to case the joint. 

They could try to get the miners to rise up in revolt.

If the ore if small and valuable like gold, they could try a heist.

A miner could steal some amount of ore or payroll then the PC's could meet him as he's being tracked down.

They could go back to the future and try to shut it down from that end.

They could try to steal the time machine and strand the future people in the past. Then the future people set up a secret society exist through the centuries to someday strike down the PC's.

If the ore is radioactive or otherwise exotic, just gathering it might cause problems....

 

[Tjack]

17 hours ago, Steve said:

 

It's actually not as bad as that. Remember, he needs that armor to keep alive as he is very, very old. Back in the Valdorian Age with its diseases unknown to modern times, he might last only days or weeks once his armor fails. At the outside, he might last a year or two. Hardly enough time to make a real, lasting impression.

   Good point.  If the potential jailer wanted Destroyer dead then just peel him out of the armor and shoot him in the head.(Like every Bond villain should do)

   So let’s just say for the sake of this potential episode that they stripped it down to life support only.  No weapons, defenses or excessive strength.  In this case his intellect and ruthlessness are much more dangerous.

[Lord Liaden]

Not an easy process for Dr. Destroyer. His armor and weaponry aren't built as Foci. Removing or disabling them require time, sophisticated equipment, and considerable technical expertise. Doable, but DD will have to have been very thoroughly defeated first.

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, archer said:

I'm really fond of the idea of mining.

 

People from the future know where all the mines in the world have been and where all the best ore was. They know where gold strikes would be made

 

 

Within the historical period, absolutely. Much more problematic to exploit the Valdorian Age, though. It falls within the era between the geography-scrambling magical cataclysms that ended the Turakian Age, and the Atlantean Age. The shape of the continents isn't even recognizable, so knowledge of where minerals will be in the future would be no guide to where they were then.

[AlgaeNymph]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Wait, does this scenario you're speculating about involve Istvatha V'han?

Someone working for her, yes.  : )

Sorry about any confusion earlier, everyone.

 

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Within the historical period, absolutely. Much more problematic to exploit the Valdorian Age, though. It falls within the era between the geography-scrambling magical cataclysms that ended the Turakian Age, and the Atlantean Age. The shape of the continents isn't even recognizable, so knowledge of where minerals will be in the future would be no guide to where they were then.

Though Lake Tah’nees in the Nightlurk Mountains does corresponds with one unfortunate oil well in Oklahoma...

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

Someone working for her, yes.  : )

Sorry about any confusion earlier, everyone.

 

Though Lake Tah’nees in the Nightlurk Mountains does corresponds with one unfortunate oil well in Oklahoma...

 

I'm afraid that can't be said with any certainty. Takofanes' own history in Champions Villains Volume One notes that over the millennia the Undying King's tomb prison was brought closer to the surface by the repeated cataclysmic upheavals the world experienced. It's hard to believe that as the continents shifted, the Archlich's tomb only moved vertically.