Defining a way to give other characters powers/abilities...How do you do it?

[Kevinvt]

This may be a rules questions and is probably in a rulebook someplace, but I'm not even sure where to look !  Let's say you wanted to give someone "Super-Solider" formula to turn them into a peak fighting machine, or expose them to Gamma rays to turn them into a raging monster, or even strike them with lightning to allow them to move at super-speed, how would you do it?  Is it as easy as a "Severe Transform"?
"

[Christopher R Taylor]

There are several ways to do it, but it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

 

If what you're trying to just create an origin for a character, then its a story thing and you don't need a power to do it.

 

If you want to do a long-term major change to a character (like granting a regular person superpowers for the duration of an adventure) transform is usually the best option

 

If you want to give someone powers for a little while, like a potion, then you have a few options.

1) using a focus to give someone a power like a power ring works (as long as they have the focus they can use the powers)

2) using Aid can boost someone's existing powers and abilities for a time limit

3) The usable by others advantage can grant someone powers indefinitely, within certain kinds of limits (have to be within a range, or spend END, that kind of thing depending on how it was built)

[Grailknight]

Transform actually has detailed rules for this.  It's perfect for the GM who wants to stat out the ability to create the Monster of the Week or the Master Villain's bionic/demonic/mutated army of followers. Just don't try to sneak it past your GM on a PC sheet. You can make very powerful things for relatively few points if you're not trying to do it in combat. 

[Tjack]

I always say it depends on the special effect.  What is it you’re trying to do? Just build characters for you to run as a GM or is this a PC who has the power to turn someone into a superhero? 

[Panpiper]

27 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Just don't try to sneak it past your GM on a PC sheet.

 

That sorta depends what you are trying to sneak. I just posted a character that has a cosmetic transform that can make people cleaner and more attractive. That is not likely to imbalance a campaign. Her severe transform to turn someone into her thrall might, but in this case, there is the exigent circumstance of it being a perfectly appropriate power for her given the appropriate situation. Check the bottom the the thread: Panpiper's free for all character archive.

[Grailknight]

4 minutes ago, Panpiper said:

 

That sorta depends what you are trying to sneak. I just posted a character that has a cosmetic transform that can make people cleaner and more attractive. That is not likely to imbalance a campaign. Her severe transform to turn someone into her thrall might, but in this case, there is the exigent circumstance of it being a perfectly appropriate power for her given the appropriate situation. Check the bottom the the thread: Panpiper's free for all character archive.

 

Don't try to sneak anything past your GM. 

 

In the case of your character, I read it and even commented that I would approve it as a GM. You had a set list of Powers for your VPP and they were spelled out clearly. 

 

That's a totally different case from a Transform designed to give Powers to a given target/victim. Case in point:

 

Severe Transform 1 point, Partial Transform (+1/2), Improved Results Group (+1), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (256 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +6 1/2) (45 Active Points)

 

That will change a 0 point target(8 BODY Normal, 0 Power Defense) into 600 point hero/villain/monster in just under 5 minutes, it can be used as an easily as any other Attack Power and the Improved Results advantage means that every target can be given a different powerset all for just 45 Active Points. I'll leave the add-on Mental Transform to make them your fanatically eager and obedient ally/follower/pet/slave as an exercise for you.( It costs less and you can link it.) 

 

 

[Kevinvt]

16 hours ago, Tjack said:

I always say it depends on the special effect.  What is it you’re trying to do? Just build characters for you to run as a GM or is this a PC who has the power to turn someone into a superhero? 

I was referring to an NPC who can turn people into heroes/villains....that's where I was going with this.

 

 

[Kevinvt]

15 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

Don't try to sneak anything past your GM. 

 

In the case of your character, I read it and even commented that I would approve it as a GM. You had a set list of Powers for your VPP and they were spelled out clearly. 

 

That's a totally different case from a Transform designed to give Powers to a given target/victim. Case in point:

 

Severe Transform 1 point, Partial Transform (+1/2), Improved Results Group (+1), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (256 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +6 1/2) (45 Active Points)

 

That will change a 0 point target(8 BODY Normal, 0 Power Defense) into 600 point hero/villain/monster in just under 5 minutes, it can be used as an easily as any other Attack Power and the Improved Results advantage means that every target can be given a different powerset all for just 45 Active Points. I'll leave the add-on Mental Transform to make them your fanatically eager and obedient ally/follower/pet/slave as an exercise for you.( It costs less and you can link it.) 

 

 

Transformed into your ally/follower/pet/slave in under 5 minutes, or your money back !! Order now and be the first one on your block !!

[Hugh Neilson]

16 hours ago, Panpiper said:

 

That sorta depends what you are trying to sneak. I just posted a character that has a cosmetic transform that can make people cleaner and more attractive. That is not likely to imbalance a campaign. Her severe transform to turn someone into her thrall might, but in this case, there is the exigent circumstance of it being a perfectly appropriate power for her given the appropriate situation.

 

A bit of an aside, but I give very little credit to "it's appropriate for my character", "I'm just playing my character" or "that's what the module says".

 

You (player or GM) choose how to design characters.  If they are overpowered or inappropriate for the game, or just ruin the fun for everyone else, that's not on "the character", it's on you for inappropriately designing a character whose fully appropriate abilities are not appropriate for the game.

 

You (the player or GM) chose the character to design and include in the game.  If the character is an a-hole, and drags down the game, then you are an a-hole for building an a-hole character and putting it in the game.  [Some dispensation to GMs as it's often appropriate for an adversarial NPC to be an a-hole]

 

The game is not run by the module writer, it is run by the GM.  Part of the GM's job is to tailor the game to the group's enjoyment.  The module writer cannot envision every circumstance, nor are they perfect, so customize the module to fit your game.  If the module said "kill the entire party here" or "now award them a thousand xp", you'd likely fix that PDQ.  Other things that need fixing may be less obvious.

[Kevinvt]

17 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

Don't try to sneak anything past your GM. 

 

In the case of your character, I read it and even commented that I would approve it as a GM. You had a set list of Powers for your VPP and they were spelled out clearly. 

 

That's a totally different case from a Transform designed to give Powers to a given target/victim. Case in point:

 

Severe Transform 1 point, Partial Transform (+1/2), Improved Results Group (+1), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (256 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +6 1/2) (45 Active Points)

 

That will change a 0 point target(8 BODY Normal, 0 Power Defense) into 600 point hero/villain/monster in just under 5 minutes, it can be used as an easily as any other Attack Power and the Improved Results advantage means that every target can be given a different powerset all for just 45 Active Points. I'll leave the add-on Mental Transform to make them your fanatically eager and obedient ally/follower/pet/slave as an exercise for you.( It costs less and you can link it.) 

 

 

Is there any chance you'd want to walk me through the math on this one?  I think its the "Severe Transform" 1 point that gets me.  Chalk it up to me being new to 6th Ed......

[Duke Bushido]

2 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

I was referring to an NPC who can turn people into heroes/villains....that's where I was going with this.

 

 

 

It would help if you could elaborate on just what you mean by turning them into heroes (or villains).  Do you mean giving them new special abilities, altering their morality and reactions, or a combination of both?

 

 

[IndianaJoe3]

21 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

This may be a rules questions and is probably in a rulebook someplace, but I'm not even sure where to look !  Let's say you wanted to give someone "Super-Solider" formula to turn them into a peak fighting machine, or expose them to Gamma rays to turn them into a raging monster, or even strike them with lightning to allow them to move at super-speed, how would you do it?  Is it as easy as a "Severe Transform"?
"

 

From a game-mechanics perspective, the correct way to give someone a power they don't have is to buy that power with some form of Usable By Others. I don't think that answers your question, though. 

[Kevinvt]

2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

It would help if you could elaborate on just what you mean by turning them into heroes (or villains).  Do you mean giving them new special abilities, altering their morality and reactions, or a combination of both?

 

 

May-be both.  I'm just thinking of the scenario where the villain says..."I shall use my Transmographication Ray to to turn you into a Wombaticulitis, and use you to destroy your friends !!"......but I'm not looking to go with the idea that..."It's an NPC villain, just stat the character and play it"...I want to see how the write-up of that ability might work.

[Greywind]

4 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

I was referring to an NPC who can turn people into heroes/villains....that's where I was going with this.

 

Sounds like an origin plot device for a story.

[Grailknight]

7 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

Is there any chance you'd want to walk me through the math on this one?  I think its the "Severe Transform" 1 point that gets me.  Chalk it up to me being new to 6th Ed......

 

 I did it in Hero Designer but basically 1d6 of Severe Transform is 15 points, 1/2d6 is 10 points and 1 pip is 5 points. It's costed just like the lesser increments of Killing Attack(as Transform was originally costed based on way back in the day). 

 

Transform has a set formula for adding points that boils down to doubling the initial BODY of the target and adding 5 Active Points for every 2 BODY rolled beyond that. That same example would add 500 points to an 18 BODY, 20 Power Defense target.

 

The Damage over Time(Gradual Effect in 5th/5R) is the biggie here because you can effectively bypass the Power Defense by choosing the -Only stopped once- option and having a large number of increments. In this case 256 segments = 256 seconds = 4 minutes, 16 seconds for the complete thing. An eternity in combat, but out of combat just a typical split the party scene in a horror/sci-fi movie. NPC wanders off and next thing you know, there's an eldritch abomination running loose that knows all about you. The Improved Results  just lets you have variety in your rampaging beasts. Why have all xenomorphs when you can have xenomorphs, werewolves, fire demons and tentacle monsters to spice things up?

 

There's plenty of precedent for this type of Power in the source material. It can be your typical Faustian bargain, an infection of nano-machines or a fast acting virus that randomly rewrites DNA. I think I came up with the basics while doing a vampire Master Villain but it was a good bit ago.

[Grailknight]

9 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

I was referring to an NPC who can turn people into heroes/villains....that's where I was going with this.

 

 

 That's how I answered. This is definitely in the realm of GM only Powers.

[IndianaJoe3]

3 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

May-be both.  I'm just thinking of the scenario where the villain says..."I shall use my Transmographication Ray to to turn you into a Wombaticulitis, and use you to destroy your friends !!"......but I'm not looking to go with the idea that..."It's an NPC villain, just stat the character and play it"...I want to see how the write-up of that ability might work.

 

That sounds like a Severe Transform. The return conditions tend to be taking a sufficient (borderline lethal) amount of damage, a second application of the same (or similar) technology, a suitable Dispel, and simply healing over time.

 

Of course, Transform is pretty much a way of costing out a plot device.

[Duke Bushido]

5 hours ago, Kevinvt said:

May-be both.  I'm just thinking of the scenario where the villain says..."I shall use my Transmographication Ray to to turn you into a Wombaticulitis, and use you to destroy your friends !!"......but I'm not looking to go with the idea that..."It's an NPC villain, just stat the character and play it"...I want to see how the write-up of that ability might work.

 

 

Okay, that didn't help as much as I thought it would.

 

Don't get me wrong!  It _did_ help, just-- well, not as much as I thought it would.

 

I'm going to skip right over Transform, because you've already gotten a lot of that.  (For what it's worth, Transform is one leg of the Trifecta of Cobble.  You'll see it offered _a lot_ as the cure-all for your problems.  That's to be expected, because it _does_ work.  As has already been said:

 

45 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

Of course, Transform is pretty much a way of costing out a plot device.

 

 

At any rate: if you are looking for a permanent (at least in a relative "lasts for a really long time" sort of sense), then T-form is probably your easy way out: turn this guy into some completely different guy.  Here's you new character sheet; enjoy.

 

If you are looking for something a bit more short-term, well.. T-form is still the easy way out.

 

If you are looking not so much as adding all new powers and abilities, consider some form of AID with the recovery moved down the time chart a bit.  I find this works great for Super Soldier serum type: you get a burst of raised characteristics and it doesn't last long.

 

If you _are_ wanting to add new abilities, well...  we used to do that will lots of fancy cobbles that likely won't fly in the post T-form world, but this was a novelty we'd dip into every now and again:  Usable by Others.  Give your power to someone else.  Better-- and pricier-- was Transfer: Usable as Attack.  Take one guy's power and give them to some other guy.  It's awesome; it's fun; it's temporary.

 

The harder part is the changes to the morality compass:  How do I turn the armored truck driver and National Guardsman into murdering thief?  Well, T-form, obviously, but there's also Mind Control (Christopher currently has a thread going about the expense of this sort of thing; I'd suggest taking a look at it).  It's also interesting to note that simply Transforming "regular Joe into a murdering thief" can actually by cheaper than mind controlling him into making you a sandwich.  How's that for neat? ) 

 

Mind Control is also short-term, and allows the victims a regular chance to break out of it early.

 

So ultimately, it's really about precisely what you are looking to model, and precisely how hard you are willing to work at it.  For most folks, T-form is exactly both of those things.

 

Enjoy.

[Kevinvt]

2 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

 I did it in Hero Designer but basically 1d6 of Severe Transform is 15 points, 1/2d6 is 10 points and 1 pip is 5 points. It's costed just like the lesser increments of Killing Attack(as Transform was originally costed based on way back in the day). 

 

Transform has a set formula for adding points that boils down to doubling the initial BODY of the target and adding 5 Active Points for every 2 BODY rolled beyond that. That same example would add 500 points to an 18 BODY, 20 Power Defense target.

 

The Damage over Time(Gradual Effect in 5th/5R) is the biggie here because you can effectively bypass the Power Defense by choosing the -Only stopped once- option and having a large number of increments. In this case 256 segments = 256 seconds = 4 minutes, 16 seconds for the complete thing. An eternity in combat, but out of combat just a typical split the party scene in a horror/sci-fi movie. NPC wanders off and next thing you know, there's an eldritch abomination running loose that knows all about you. The Improved Results  just lets you have variety in your rampaging beasts. Why have all xenomorphs when you can have xenomorphs, werewolves, fire demons and tentacle monsters to spice things up?

 

There's plenty of precedent for this type of Power in the source material. It can be your typical Faustian bargain, an infection of nano-machines or a fast acting virus that randomly rewrites DNA. I think I came up with the basics while doing a vampire Master Villain but it was a good bit ago.

Oh, I know the trope...."Wait, stop...you must kill me before I turn into...one of those....things ! Noooooooooo...."

[Chris Goodwin]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:09 AM, Kevinvt said:

This may be a rules questions and is probably in a rulebook someplace, but I'm not even sure where to look !  Let's say you wanted to give someone "Super-Solider" formula to turn them into a peak fighting machine, or expose them to Gamma rays to turn them into a raging monster, or even strike them with lightning to allow them to move at super-speed, how would you do it?  Is it as easy as a "Severe Transform"?
"

 

If you're trying to give someone an origin, like one time, ever... blast them with lightning and hope they get powers... I'd almost treat that like an old school D&D "entreaty to the gods".  Basically, either the GM is on board, or roll 3d6; if you roll a natural 3, it happens.  Once.   If you have Power Skill, you might be able to blast them with lightning to activate their powers, as a power stunt, in which case you'll make a roll at a penalty of some kind, but probably still once.  

 

If you want to be able to grant someone powers at will, you'll pay points for that.  You could use Transform, as mentioned.  You could buy powers Usable By Others; Differing Modifiers is a good one here.  If your profession is such that you could build powers for someone (like gadgeteer, artificer, alchemist, etc.) you might acquire materials, make a few Skill Rolls, then they'll have a new gadget or magic item or whatever.  It's the GM's option if it sticks around after the current session.  

 

If you have a Variable Power Pool, and it's something like a gadget pool, you can make gadgets and hand them out to someone... probably once.  If you want to be able to do it every adventure, every combat, then you'll need to give them Usable By Others, potentially with Differing Modifiers.