Move By rules question

[Christopher R Taylor]

According to the rules, you can do a multiple attack move by on the same target, by circling them and hitting them over and over.  So, far so good, this is a classic speedster trick.

 

But the rules state:

 

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a character can perform a “Multiple Move By” on a single target by moving in a circle around him and hitting him repeatedly. In this situation he can only make an attack each time he returns to the point where he first hit the target.  Typically that means he has to travel a full 10m circle around the target between each attack.

 

Now I get the logic behind this (its 6, 2m hexes around a 2x2m hex to circle them) but there are some mathematical and logical problems with this.  First off, a 10m circumference circle has a radius of just under 1.6, which is a bit far to expect a character to reach to hit someone in the center.

 

Second, if you lined up 15 guys in a row, each one 2m apart, then the speedster could do a Moveby stooge slap on each one of them, attempting a multiple attack to hit each target as they pass like Moe slapping both of the other stooges.  But in this ruling, you have to do a full circle around the target to hit them once.  Even a really, really fast speedster is going to have a hard time hitting more than a couple times with this kind of ruling, which doesn't really simulate what the idea is trying to.

 

I mean you could just say "well they all buy autofire" but why even do the multiple move by circle thing if its going to be that bad, or have that as a rule?

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd say it's a compromise.  Even a character with 12 meters movement (no extra Running can get two attacks in on the same target.  However, i'd say the rules have evolved beyond the need for this restriction.  When first written, we did not have Multiple Attack rules, only the Multiple Move By.  Now, Barney Brick can Punch a target 40 times without moving at all (the -80 OCV penalty may deter him,but the speedster takes the same penalty).

[Christopher R Taylor]

It was honestly a surprise when the designers of the rules said "you didn't know you could do this?  You always could" because the rules did not in any way make that clear beyond a Sweep maneuver.  The combined attack thing, completely out of the blue.
 

[Hugh Neilson]

IIRC, Multiple Move By also predated Sweep by an edition or two.  I assume the "you could always do that" surprises like Combined Attacks (I don't recall it for Multiple Attacks) are the reason we need over a thousand pages of rules to ensure everything gets spelled out in detail.

 

But I cannot ever recall a character with a 2d6 HKA and a 60 STR using a Combined Attack to inflict 4d6 Killing and 12d6 Normal damage.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Maybe a good compromise would be to have the character need to run not the entire center ring of 2m hexes around the target hex, but a closer one that is around 12m, since that's about twice the circumference of a 2m wide circle.  That's one move for a normal character, for a full move in a phase.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm not sure there's a need to restrict multiple move by's more than other multiple attacks, when anyone can make multiple Strikes on the same target.

[Ninja-Bear]

9 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

But I cannot ever recall a character with a 2d6 HKA and a 60 STR using a Combined Attack to inflict 4d6 Killing and 12d6 Normal damage.

Well to be fair, if many people thought you couldn’t do this, you wouldn’t see it either.

[Ninja-Bear]

Personally it’s the 1/2 DCV for Multiple Move-Bys which hurt Speedsters more. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

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I'm not sure there's a need to restrict multiple move by's more than other multiple attacks, when anyone can make multiple Strikes on the same target.

 

This is true, what really is the difference between a speedster running around someone punching and someone just standing there doing it other than special effect and style?

[Ninja-Bear]

59 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

This is true, what really is the difference between a speedster running around someone punching and someone just standing there doing it other than special effect and style?

I think (which is dangerous) that the Speedster running in a circle still benefits from Velocity to add to damage whereas if he just stood there then there is no velocity bonus.

[Christopher R Taylor]

True, although its a small bonus and there is the OCV penalty on top of that, which I think balances out pretty well.  V/10 might be decent for a speedster but its not going to add up to a lot either way.  

 

The reason this comes up is that the multiple move bys and combined/multiple attack rules are in the final stages of the tutorial adventure.  I am going strictly by Hoyle, even if I want to change it, but it struck me as curious and maybe not quite proper when I read through the rules.  When I did the Western Hero rules this didn't come up for obvious reasons

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

When I did the Western Hero rules this didn't come up for obvious reasons

 

Pretty useful for Western, too: crashing your horse through a line of men, or leaping off a full-run mount onto a target.

 

Though to be fair, that might be covered in 6e Fantasy HERO.  I'm behind in reading it.  I got about a hundred pages in, it seemed to be 5e Fantasy HERO with new dressing, so I tabled finishing it while I caught up on other things.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Oh sure, move by and move through show up, but not multiple move by running in a circle

[Greywind]

Does Ivanova's "Sex Earth Style" count as a multiple move by?

 

 

[drunkonduty]

Ivanova can do whatever she wants and call it whatever she wants.