Any Advice for Designing a Hand of Glory ?

[Kevinvt]

Just looking to see how others would write up a Hand of Glory, the mythological device made of a dead man's hand with a lit candle, which, according to folklore, can open all doors and paralyze any person looking at it.  How would that look in game terms?

[Ninja-Bear]

Off the top of my head, I would look at Mental paralysis for holding “anyone” looking at it. And for to open any door? I go with Tunneling with the sfx that the “hole” is actually the door opened. 

[Opal]

Desolidification (that's still a power, yes?) stopped by magical wards, that only lets you pass through openable doors, might work, for the opening doors trick, too - it has the advantage of not have a DEF limit, but you can't just leave the door open for somenone else like you could a tunnel.

Another version of the folklore I heard was that it keeps the members of the household asleep.
Either way, magical burglary tool.

[MrAgdesh]

5 hours ago, Opal said:

Another version of the folklore I heard was that it keeps the members of the household asleep.
Either way, magical burglary tool.

That’s the version I’m familiar with (and have in fact used). Once the dead man’s tallow is lit on each finger, the inhabitants of the house *will not wake* until the fingers are doused with milk. That’s a Suppress Lightsleep at the very least. 

[Ninja-Bear]

29 minutes ago, MrAgdesh said:

That’s the version I’m familiar with (and have in fact used). Once the dead man’s tallow is lit on each finger, the inhabitants of the house *will not wake* until the fingers are doused with milk. That’s a Suppress Lightsleep at the very least. 

I see where you’re going with the Lightsleep though that maybe not the best fit. 
 

One complicated way I think would be a largish Suppress STUN and Suppress REC only on sleeping victims. 
 

The easy way I think would be XDM: Sleep Dimension.

[Jhamin]

2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

IThe easy way I think would be XDM: Sleep Dimension.

XDM is the handwave to everything


Suppress might work mechanically, but has all kinds of weird interactions.

Ninja-Bear's write-up works well.  I might go with a Mind Control: "Stay Still/Go to sleep (depending)", only if target looks at hand of glory, continuous, uncontrolled, combined with (as Opal suggests) a Desolid, only through locked portals. 

It won't be cheap, but this is a powerful effect.

[MrAgdesh]

4 hours ago, Jhamin said:

It won't be cheap, but this is a powerful effect.

Oh yes.

 

A player of mine in a Cthulhu campaign found a recently used one in the basement of the hotel he was staying in...

[Hugh Neilson]

12 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I see where you’re going with the Lightsleep though that maybe not the best fit. 
 

One complicated way I think would be a largish Suppress STUN and Suppress REC only on sleeping victims. 
 

The easy way I think would be XDM: Sleep Dimension.

 

1d6 Continuous AoE Stun Drain, 0 END, No Range, 1 Fuel Charge (how long can the candles burn continuously before they run out?), recovers immediately if candles snuffed.  Held by a 2 SPD individual, everyone within the radius who is asleep takes an average of 7 STUN per turn.  Light it up, wait a minute and they are not waking up while you rob the place.  The STUN comes back, and they are as asleep as they were before, when the candles are snuffed.

[Opal]

I'm flashing back to a sleep <> knocked out discussion from somewhen. ? And doesn't taking damage typically wake a character up?

Is there still Change Environment? CE: conditions ideal for sleep, perhaps? I was thinking Darkeness to hearing, but sudden unaccostomed silence can wake you up, too.

[Hugh Neilson]

2 hours ago, Opal said:

I'm flashing back to a sleep <> knocked out discussion from somewhen. ? And doesn't taking damage typically wake a character up?

Is there still Change Environment? CE: conditions ideal for sleep, perhaps? I was thinking Darkeness to hearing, but sudden unaccostomed silence can wake you up, too.

 

From the Lightsleep talent (6e V1 p 114):

 

Quote

Normally a character must make Hearing PER Rolls at -6 to wake up when someone enters the room, leans over his bed, makes an unusual noise, or the like.

 

Several references refer to "sleeping or unconscious" indicating identical mechanics for the most part.

 

One example of Mental Blast is induced sleepiness, with a Sleep Spell example.  A STUN drain with Damage over Time is an example Drowsiness spell.  Sleep Poison Darts are an example NND with damage over time. Harp of the Seven Slumbers is another sleep spell example, this time for Gestures. 

 

Feels like "sleep" can be an SFX of knockout.

[Opal]

(BTW, how do you get quotes to work on the forum these days - I've been away since 2012... yeah...)

Obviously, you can't wake up from 0 or less stun with a PER roll, so sleeping is not quite the same as unconscious, even if the two states are otherwise very similar.
While unnaturally putting a waking target 'to sleep' could be F/X for reducing stun below 0 in a variety of ways.

So does the Hand put people to sleep, say, in combat, or does it keep already-naturally-sleeping people from awakening? My feel for it from the versions of the folklore I've heard over the years is closer to the latter. So, while suppressing a talent is maybe a bit cheesy, and a silence field could have issues of it's own, I think working to induce failure on that PER roll would be more apropos than an actual attack, since it's the existing mechanic for waking up, which is what the Hand is supposed to prevent.

But an attack mechanic would be right for a version where you could, say, light it, step into a bank, and have the customers and tellers all fall asleep while you rob the place.

[MrAgdesh]

5 hours ago, Opal said:

I'm flashing back to a sleep <> knocked out discussion from somewhen. ? And doesn't taking damage typically wake a character up?

 

A sudden shock to the system would probably wake you but for things like carbon monoxide poisoning working would that be IPE? 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Transform to open doors is the cleanest fix; it makes the door into an open door.  Tunneling works but its a bit brute force, I doubt you'll get a GM that lets you just treat that as "I picked the lock".

[Hugh Neilson]

15 hours ago, MrAgdesh said:

A sudden shock to the system would probably wake you but for things like carbon monoxide poisoning working would that be IPE? 

 

Oh look - damage has special effects.

 

If you wanted a "keeps the sleeping asleep", you could just have CE that reduces the Hearing PER roll for waking up.  It would be harder to keep a LightSleeper asleep, so we'd likely need -15 or so to the roll.  Now even an 18- PER roll is reduced to a 3.  I'd consider that enough for Absolute Effect in most games, especially given the relatively limited application.  But it will be a lot more expensive than that simple "keep them asleep by keeping them below -10 STUN" approach.  How much is it really worth?

[archer]

19 hours ago, Opal said:

(BTW, how do you get quotes to work on the forum these days - I've been away since 2012... yeah...)
 

 

AKAIK, you can't get quotes to work for outside-of-the-thread sources since the site update ("upgrade") last year. The best you can do is copy-and-paste then put quotation marks around it.

 

For quotes from people who have posted in the thread, hit the quote button underneath their comment. Then after that content shows up, you are free to add or delete from that content if you want to respond to some particular section of what they said.

[IndianaJoe3]

On 3/17/2021 at 3:12 PM, Opal said:

(BTW, how do you get quotes to work on the forum these days - I've been away since 2012... yeah...)

 

I think you can use the quote style.

 

Quote

Like this.

 

But I haven't figured out how to attribute that style of quotation.

[Matt the Bruins]

I once wrote up the holds-people-motionless option for an occultist villain who used various trinkets and talismans, with the Gestures Limitation indicating lighting the fingers:

 

Hand Of Glory: Entangle 2d6, 2MD, Alternate Combat Value (OMCV vs. DMCV; +1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius, Selective; +3/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks (+3/4), Works Against EGO, Not STR (+1/4); OAF (-1), Gestures (-1/4), Mental Defense Adds To EGO (-1/2), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge (1 Hour; -0)

 

[MrAgdesh]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:01 PM, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Oh look - damage has special effects.

 

If you wanted a "keeps the sleeping asleep", you could just have CE that reduces the Hearing PER roll for waking up.  It would be harder to keep a LightSleeper asleep, so we'd likely need -15 or so to the roll.  Now even an 18- PER roll is reduced to a 3.  I'd consider that enough for Absolute Effect in most games, especially given the relatively limited application.  But it will be a lot more expensive than that simple "keep them asleep by keeping them below -10 STUN" approach.  How much is it really worth?

I'm thinking of all those Westerns where the group camp out overnight by a campfire but don't set a Watch. In those circumstances, something that can insidiously kill you (you won't wake up, despite taking damage) is worth a great deal. It's the end of the movie right there (unless the horses spooking wakes you). Of course, I haven't been in any RPG without a Watch being set at night. Just like I haven't been in any horror game where they walked through the graveyard without a flashlight.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah well certain genres require people to act like imbeciles in order to create the proper mood or drama.  Romances, at least one person has to be a complete ass.  Horror movies, everyone has to act like they are imbeciles.  If they don't there's not a very long movie and the proper tone doesn't build up.

[Greywind]

First off: find the body of a hanged man. Preferably a murderer. You want the hand that "did the deed".

[mallet]

Does the door actually OPEN when the hand is near it, or does it just unlock the door?

 

If it only unlocks the door, maybe the GM would allow this?:

 

Hand Of Glory I - Unlock Door:  Lockpicking 21-, Usable As Attack (+1/2), Grantor can only grant the power to Locked Door, Door must be close to Grantor (40 Active Points); OAF (Dead Man's Hand with Candle)(-1), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Gestures (Must hold stable in one hand), Requires Gestures throughout (-1/2), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (Candle) (Fuel is Difficult to obtain; -1/4) AC: 12

 

If it does open the door, then maybe add 1pt of TK to it to turn handle and push open the door. 

 

I get not all GM's would allow this, but I would. Nice and fairly clean way of doing it. 

 

Another way would be to build the Hand as a Follower, that has TK with fine motor skills, and high lockpicking skill. Plus Entangle for freezing people.