fdw3773 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 I recently came across Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (SWADE) and was fairly impressed by the style and substance of this universal game system. However, reading some sample excerpts and reviews are a lot different than actual game play. Has anyone played a superhero themed campaign for Savage Worlds? If so, how was it? I've been playing Champions on and off for around 20+ years now, and while it will always have a special place in my heart, the number-crunching of 5th and 6th has gotten old and other rules-light games like ICONS is a little too rules-light for me. Thanks in advance! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 I've played Savage Worlds and its an okay system but I cannot wrap my head around how on earth you'd build or balance superheroes in that system at all. fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christougher Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 If it's the system I'm thinking of, Yes. Played a convention game where the PCs were Victorian age expies of the Justice League. Massively entertaining game. I did like that the rules for breaking a structure were the same rules for hurting a character. However, to address the original question of balance: I have NO idea. It was probably my first exposure to the system, and I didn't have the rulebook to puzzle that out, or need it to play. Chris. fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 I think it's a great system, overall. In fact, I have unashamedly commented before that if HERO gets too many more "core rules",that I will chuck 40 years of gaming plesure out of the window and that Savage Worlds would become my system of choice. Honestly,I think,I that is exactly what Kieth "coolest signature on the internet" Curtis did; at least, i've not heard any lamentations alleged to be his own. It is a solud design that sees more support than today's HERO does (at least these days), is way easier to read, and way easier to carry around (id you prefer paper books. its not HERO. That is niether good nor bad; it just means that one is not like the other at any point, and there is no really accurate way to compare them. I feel like, especially for newer players, character generation is easier. I can't be sure if that is simply because I have 40 years of building in HERO. You practice, it becomes easy. or so I am told. I still cant draw. the only thing I wasn't really crazy about was exploding dice, though HERO player or not, that's just not a gimmick I've ever been really crazy about simply because of how it can absolutely wreck the suspension of disbelief. Its not a huge problem though, as it doesn't stand out as exceptional in the much more fast, loose,freestyle rules of Savage Worlds. I dont care much for modern almost-no-rules RPGs, and Savage Worlds is a real sweet spot between freeestyle rap competition "let's take turns narrating the story" modern stuff and the PhD courseload that is today's HERO System. fdw3773 and Murrkon5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 For me, the best thing to emerge from Savage Worlds is their Plot Point Campaign architecture for campaigns and adventures. On the other hand, Savage Worlds is less crunchy (less of a superhero comic book simulation) and more "narrative" in style than Champions, and so it is much harder to calibrate the antagonists to the PCs, which leads to a lot more GM fudging during play than I am comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 I have it. I got to play a few scenarios too. A couple of notes. Savage Worlds build their characters differently than Hero System. Oy Vey, it took my a while to grasp that! SWADE is SW newest rules however their Supers isn’t up to those Rules. Their Deluxe has both an “updated” deluxe rule version of Necessary Evil and a Super Hero Companion. The point buy for each are different. NE was originally for their 1st edition rules and used by default a skill called Guts. They eliminated that as a default skill yet the Deluxe rules still has all the characters have them. Note if you use their initiative system (which uses a deck of cards), Speedsters are not guaranteed to go first! I’ll tag Spence since he answered some questions about it awhile back perhaps he can give some advice. @Spence, I believe you have more experience with Savage Worlds? Care to add to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 19 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I've played Savage Worlds and its an okay system but I cannot wrap my head around how on earth you'd build or balance superheroes in that system at all. It took me a awhile to learn how to build characters at all in the system. To reverse engineer on how the samples were built, you HAVE to follow how all characters are built which can be annoying. Points do not go attributes to skills to Powers easily as Hero system does. As an aside apparently I was doing Hindrances wrong which they changed in 3rd (newest) ed. Minor Hinderance are worth 1 pt. Certain things you can buy for 2 pts. So I figured two minors could buy the 2pt stuff-wrong. If you wanted to buy from the 2pt list you were supposed to take a Major Hinderance because they were 2 pts. Really the rules weren’t that clear on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I think it's a great system, overall. In fact, I have unashamedly commented before that if HERO gets too many more "core rules",that I will chuck 40 years of gaming plesure out of the window and that Savage Worlds would become my system of choice. Honestly,I think,I that is exactly what Kieth "coolest signature on the internet" Curtis did; at least, i've not heard any lamentations alleged to be his own. It is a solud design that sees more support than today's HERO does (at least these days), is way easier to read, and way easier to carry around (id you prefer paper books. its not HERO. That is niether good nor bad; it just means that one is not like the other at any point, and there is no really accurate way to compare them. I feel like, especially for bewer players, character generation is easier. I cant be sure if that simply because I have 40 years of building in HERO. You practice, it becomes easy. or so I am told. I still cant draw. the only thing I wasn't really crazy about was exploding dice, though HERO player or not, thats just not a gimmick ive ever been really crazy about simply because of how it's,absolutely wreck the suspension of disbelief. Its not,a huge pro I am though, as it do3snt stand out as exceptional in the much more fast, loose,freestyle rules of Savage Worlds. I dont care much for modern almost-no-rules RPGs, and Savage Worlds is a real sweet spot between freeestyle rap competition "let's take turns narrating the story" modern stuff and the PhD courseload that is today's HERO System. Ha! I would be very surprised if you could ditch Hero and embrace SW with no issues. I’m not knocking either system. It’s just their design philosophy and game play are different. Funny story, last month I wrangled my boys into a Cyberpunk scenario. My older one argued that if he made a run then that’s all he could do that “phase”. I said “no, in SW you can run which is Pace +1d6 and any action then is at -2”. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Another thing that took me awhile to get the hang of is the the Wild Die. Wild Cards (PC and Major NPCs) get to roll an extra die for success BUT you don’t add it with the skill die. For example, I have shooting at d4. I roll (as a PC) a d4 and a d6. Wild die is always D6. I have a target number of 4. I may have a 3 on the d4 and a 5 on the d6 so the wild die hit. I don’t have a total of 8. Also @Duke Bushido, SW has Soak damage rolls. You have to spend a Benny to do it but still I know how much you like the soak mechanic and Bennies too! 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: @Spence, I believe you have more experience with Savage Worlds? Care to add to it? What little bit I can add. I am most familiar with Deluxe which as Duke mentioned SW is a fun system to run and play. Oddly, most of my experience has been with Triple Ace Games savage world settings such as their Daring Tales of Adventure and Hellfrost. Of the SW products by Pinnacle none of them ever grabbed me or any of the players I knew, at least not enough to run. It was all Deadlands and other gloomy apocalyptic grunge except a few outlying Plot Points like Slipstream and Space 1889. About the game itself. From my experience it handles normal and near normal cinematic action really well. I was able to run a great 1930's Pulp game using TAG's Daring Tales of Adventure plus Hero's Hero Plus Adventures (most of which made it into Thrilling Hero Tales). TAGs All for One was another game that ran for a good while. Rippers was a fun but short lived game as was Hellfrost. The game mechanics are easy and intuitive and the Benny system is one I have modified and stolen for use in my Hero games. Progression is in 5 point increments with the PC gaining something new at every 5 points: a new Edge, increase a skill, that is equal to or greater than its linked attribute by one die type, increase two skills that are lower than their linked attributes by one die type each, buy a new skill at d4, or increase one attribute by a die type. There are also Rank increases starting as a Novice and increasing at 20 (Seasoned), 40 (Veteran), 60 (Heroic) and 80+ (Legendary). At Novice to Veteran the game runs great and has a very swashbuckley feeling. But the higher you get the more the entire feel and play of the game gets "off". In the Heroic range the game got very, I really can't put my finger on it, but the player enthusiasm went down and mine wasn't far behind. Really soon after the one of the players hit Legendary we quit playing. Superpowers. The book that added superpowers was not badly written, but they seem to be more of a module that has been pasted on. You build the PC normally, with access to a few new new Hindrances and Edges, plus Power Points that you use to buy superpowers. Reading the powers list feels like you are reading Champions 2nd edition with names changed and 6th edition flavor (blandness). Except for 8 "Generic Modifiers", each power lists power specific modifiers which increase or reduce the power cost. Attack Melee for instance can be any attack from claw to fist to sword and has modifiers like Armor Piercing and Multiple Attacks. Attack Ranged can be anything from Blasts to bullets and has modifiers like Area Effect and Cone. They also have a sectioon on building a headquarters. All in all they did not do a bad job, but it feels tacked on. And there is still the core game issue of things falling apart are the upper ranks. We could never get a super game off the ground. To be fair there are a lot of people that did not have the issues we had with the game system. I don't know about now, but there used to be a big following for Necessary Evil, the Earth was invaded and conquered by Aliens with all the Superheroes dying in the defense. Now, Earths salvation rests in the hands of Supervillains. Not for me, but a lot of peeps liked it. All in all, IMO, SW is a great game for cinematic near normal action, Pulp, Jame Bond spies, Jason Bourne spies, Pirate adventure, Swashbuckling adventure, Doc Savage, 30's 40's 50's adventure and so on. But it breaks down at the top end. BigJackBrass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 @Spence, for the Cyperpunk game I did with the boys, I used the Triple Ace Games Rules. I rather like their interpretation of the Rule System. Spence and fdw3773 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 5 hours ago, zslane said: For me, the best thing to emerge from Savage Worlds is their Plot Point Campaign architecture for campaigns and adventures. I cannot emphasis my agreement with zslane on this enough. I have bought many Plot Points that I have used for other systems. While I do not remember who suggested this first, it was most likely zslane, but I am not 100% sure. The mini-campaign setting rules with a 10 to 20 scenario campaign in a single book is exactly what is needed for Hero. In Slipstream they had 48 pages to cover character creation, setting gear and setting rules. 26 pages to describe the world, 42 pages to cover the 10 Episodes of Season One (the campaign), 12 pages to cover plots seeds for Season Two, 26 pages for encounters stat blocks and bestiary and finally character sheets forms and index. That is it 158 pages total. No more. For a Champions game you would need to limit background setting info to 26 pages. That is it. Champions Universe plus city information in 26 pages. I honestly don't think Hero authors are capable of doing it in less than 1000 pages. After all how would we know what color of toilet paper Defender uses . 3 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said: @Spence, for the Cyperpunk game I did with the boys, I used the Triple Ace Games Rules. I rather like their interpretation of the Rule System. TAG definitely knows how to write adventures and settings. fdw3773 and Ninja-Bear 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 On fairness, I _do_ like soaking, and kind,of wish there was a workable HERO mechanic for it that doesnt feel shoehorned in. I don't like bennies in HERO because they feel so counter to the extra-exacting everything that HERO has become. It just feels forced in HERO. In systems that were built completely around them, it works quite nicely. I don't _hate_ exploding dice, either: I find them a great way to model criticals. It is when those dice explode up to pure fantasy levels that I dont care for when things like magic and super powers are not on the table. fdw3773 and Spence 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said: I dont like bennies in HERO because the feel so counter to the extra-exacting everything that HERO has become. It just feels forced in HERO. I don't know yet, I have yet to really use my adaption in a real game so I can't tell if it will be a bust. I do like my "investigative skill" hack with the attached "Epiphany Points". I do know that I would not be able to use both at the same time. With the skill hack and EP's I have not had the inclination to dust off Bennies. 7 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said: In syatems that were buikt completely around them, it works quite nicely. I don't _hate_ exploding dice, either: I find them a great way to model criticals. It is when those dice explode up to pure fantasy levels that I dont care for when things like magic and super powers are not on the table. Fair enough and mostly likely not wrong. But then for SW's their magic and superpowers just don't feel right to me either. Duke Bushido and fdw3773 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Spence said: Fair enough and mostly likely not wrong. But then for SW's their magic and superpowers just don't feel right to me either. That’s my point as circumspect as it was. I have fun with SW. But if you go in with preconceived notions, it may not be as enjoyable as it could be. Duke Bushido, Spence and fdw3773 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 Another quirk of SW is Heavy Armor and Heavy Weapon. If you have Heavy Armor then only things rated as Heavy Weapon can affect you. Now in the Super realm just because you have Super Strength doesn’t grant you Heavy Weapon status by default. You either buy it as an advantage or with a generous GM can grant you the effect of Heavy Weapon if you pick up something that the GM agrees too like say whacking an opponent with a telephone pole. @fdw3773 if you’re on the fence about buying it, I would say the cheapest option would be to buy the Deluxe Rules and just Necessary Evil. NE has the Super Rules and Plot Point campaign. If you are a causal player this is probably the most cost effective. I do believe that they are looking to update NE to SWADE but when? Not sure. fdw3773 and Spence 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said: That’s my point as circumspect as it was. I have fun with SW. But if you go in with preconceived notions, it may not be as enjoyable as it could be. Absolutely. And I did have fun and enjoyed SW a lot. It really depended on the genre. And the most important thing, it depends on your players. fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said: if you’re on the fence about buying it, I would say the cheapest option would be to buy the Deluxe Rules and just Necessary Evil. NE has the Super Rules and Plot Point campaign. If you are a causal player this is probably the most cost effective. I would second this. NE is a full Plot Point book. It has the setting details, rules for supers, a 11 Episode adventure/campaign and additional info for the GM. Good book. fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 Im looking at doing something like this for various types of Hero campaigns, for easy jump-in campaigns without full adventure write ups fdw3773 and Spence 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJackBrass Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 It took a while, but my group burned out on Savage Worlds. I started with the first release, then revised and so on, none of which seemed to fully address all of the issues with the system. I mean really, how many different stabs at chase rules have they had? We loved it at first, until all of the characters started to feel identical and it seemed like every roll needed points spending on it because the probabilities are a bit of a mess; and as mentioned above the game collapses at higher power levels due to the nature of its step-dice mechanic. I'm not sure it's possible to fix that. As a superhero game it's at best inadequate and disappointing. Necessary Evil had its moments, even if it never bothers to give decent advice and support for its core conceit (you're supposed to be playing villains, but the whole setup means you're indistinguishable from heroes), and Savage Worlds is fantastic as a convention game, but I would never consider it for supers. Christopher R Taylor, fdw3773 and Spence 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdw3773 Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 10:14 PM, Ninja-Bear said: @fdw3773 if you’re on the fence about buying it, I would say the cheapest option would be to buy the Deluxe Rules and just Necessary Evil. NE has the Super Rules and Plot Point campaign. If you are a causal player this is probably the most cost effective. I do believe that they are looking to update NE to SWADE but when? Not sure. Thank you, Ninja-Bear, and so many others in this forum for sharing your gaming experiences and insights about Savage Worlds. While a good system in its own right as explained by those in this board, it would not be a good fit for me. Thank you all again for saving me a nice bit of $$$ and even more time from the likely aggravation I would experience trying to convert my 5th and 6th Edition write-ups to this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 @fdw3773, if you’re looking for a simple Super Hero system, good luck. I have bought several game systems and I haven’t found one yet to my liking. I alsways go back to Hero System. fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdw3773 Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 17 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: @fdw3773, if you’re looking for a simple Super Hero system, good luck. I have bought several game systems and I haven’t found one yet to my liking. I alsways go back to Hero System. I used to play ICONS a lot at the local game conventions and even had a campaign that lasted for several months, which is about as rules light as it gets while still being a quality RPG, but it definitely had a ceiling that hindered it. After playing other games in the superhero genre, I also find myself going back to Hero System. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, fdw3773 said: I used to play ICONS a lot at the local game conventions and even had a campaign that lasted for several months, which is about as rules light as it gets while still being a quality RPG, but it definitely had a ceiling that hindered it. After playing other games in the superhero genre, I also find myself going back to Hero System. 😉 I was going to bring up ICONS too. But you have already tried it and discovered its issue fdw3773 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 After reading all these replies, I feel I must mention that I don't play a lot supers, even in HERO-- I _will_ play it, and I _will_ run it, gladly, but when I am given the choice, it's not supers. Accordingly, it is quite possible that my satisfaction with my few times with SW is based on using it counter to the rest of those posting. We did a couple of supers games with it, but primarily we were playing a published SF setting (whose name I don't remember. It featured a beautiful cover, the art of which was dominated with blacks and greens) about exploring a relatively "new" planet. Your BOE was a resort of some sort, if I remember correctly. Anyway, had a pretty good time with it. I am intrigued to note that most of the complaints that SW breaks down at high levels are so similar to my own annoyance that HERO breaks down at the lower levels. It doesn't if your looking at if from the supers-level perspective, but if you are an adventurer with a knife and a gun, you can't help but notice that the entire party has (effectively) the identical knife and gun.... Spence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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