[5thR] Build question – Spell End Costs

[Spence]

So while I am using a blend of 5thR and 4th for my game I will ask my questions from a 5thR view.

 

In many FRPG’s both table top and console/computer there are many “spells” or powers that are can be “cast” with the caster paying the entire cost of mana (or whatever) on the instant of casting but then the spell effect lasts for a period of time (multiple turns/segments/actions/etc.). 

 

For Hero I have usually defaulted back either to requiring the player pay End on an ongoing manner or using charges. 

 

But that isn’t really what I want to do. I want the “spell” to be a fire-and-forget style where the caster pays all End (or Mana/or whatever) up front and then the spell remains in force for the number of phases pre-paid for.  I don’t want to use charges because I want all the Mages spells to be fed from the same source and I am still leaning to that source being their End.   

 

This all comes from various anime, manga and such I have read/watched in the past. 

 

Sanctuary, a ritual spell which encompasses the party in a circle of power that does damage to undead entering it but provides healing to any non-undead in its area and the effect lasts for X time.    

 

The “Priest/Cleric” chants the ritual and invokes Sanctuary, and once it has been cast they can simply ignore it and focus on other things.  Sanctuary will remain in force until it times out. 

 

How would you approach the End cost side of things?

[Hugh Neilson]

Sounds like Uncontrolled.  Pay the END up front and the ability keeps chugging along until it eats all the END it was given.

 

If you wanted to get fancier, though, we have Continuing Charges - what about extrapolating an advantage from the change in the Charges limitation?

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Sounds like Uncontrolled.  Pay the END up front and the ability keeps chugging along until it eats all the END it was given.

 

If you wanted to get fancier, though, we have Continuing Charges - what about extrapolating an advantage from the change in the Charges limitation?

 

Uncontrolled.

Drat. 

 

I played Hero for years and then went into a long hiatus where I not only didn't play Hero but any RPG for a several years.  I returned to running RPG's, but they were not Hero.  Mostly CoC, GUMSHOE and related games.  Now that I have gotten serious in restarting a Hero game I find myself constantly slapped when I just can't locate something that is on the proverbial "tip if the tongue" for my memory.   After a fruitless search I'll finally post a query and then experience a Homer Simpson "Duh!" moment. 

 

Thank you.  As soon as you said Uncontrolled I facepalmed....

[Hugh Neilson]

There's a ton of options in the books.  Uncontrolled works, I think, but it also normally means the character gets to decide how much, or how little, END to invest on each activation, so that may or may not fit your purposes.  It may still need some tweaking to fit what you're envisioning.

[HeroGM]

Uncontrolled for sure (for sure for sure the Elf said in a valley voice).

 

There are also some END advantages in APG1 that might be useful if you have it.

[Spence]

8 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

There's a ton of options in the books.  Uncontrolled works, I think, but it also normally means the character gets to decide how much, or how little, END to invest on each activation, so that may or may not fit your purposes.  It may still need some tweaking to fit what you're envisioning.

 

You're correct, but not too much tweaking.  I'm building up a big action Fantasy game more akin to anime than a traditional High Fantasy game.  So giving the PCs more control of details is not something that I'd discourage.

[LoneWolf]

Before 6th edition came out we used to have a house rule that you could purchase a spell with a ¼ advantage Cost END to activate.   Looks like  lot of people were using that because it made it into 6th edition.  Technically you can put a limitation on an advantage.   So what you do it apply the +1/2 advantage 0 END and apply -1 limitation to the advantage that it cost full END to star the power.   That works out the same as using the +1/4 advantage.   You could even apply the advantage persistent to allow it to stay up if you are stunned or knocked out.  

[Ninja-Bear]

Spence, I’m going to swear that in Fifth you could have charges and still be required to pay END too. 

[HeroGM]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Spence, I’m going to swear that in Fifth you could have charges and still be required to pay END too. 

 

You can do that in sixth as well

[Ninja-Bear]

Just now, HeroGM said:

 

You can do that in sixth as well

Cool! But Spence specified 5th.

[Tom Cowan]

2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Spence, I’m going to swear that in Fifth you could have charges and still be required to pay END too. 

Yes, for 4th, 5th and 6th you have to put the charges limitation (you get the power at 0 END) then add the costs END limitation to get that.

[Hugh Neilson]

Back in the "what should change for 6e" days, I suggested unbundling Charges so they would have a higher limitation but cost END by default.

 

"But that would be unrealistic - guns would cost END for their bullets without an extra advantage!" won that battle.

 

Well, it would sure work well for Wizards who can cast spells a certain number of times per day, and it is tiring to cast them.  Or for an archer who has a limited quiver, and has to draw the bow.  But intuitive firearms were more important.  I blame the Harbinger of Justice!

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

8 hours ago, Tom Cowan said:

Yes, for 4th, 5th and 6th you have to put the charges limitation (you get the power at 0 END) then add the costs END limitation to get that.

I wasn’t clear. It was an option that you could have charges and still pay END. Naturally this will affect cost of Power. Now whether this option is in 5th, I believe it is but not betting on it either.

[Spence]

Thanks for all the input, but Uncontrolled will work just fine for what I have in mind.   I never liked the whole "uses per day" thing and the use of charges doesn't work for what I am currently building. 

 

I've put my build on hold while I take the time to sit down and run back through the 5thR rulebook.  I need to take the time to familiarize myself with all the little details I seem to have forgotten. 

 

[HeroGM]

Charges alone doesn't cost End.

 

You can put "Cost End" on it as well so it uses both. Works in 5th as well as 6th since it's a mix-in like Voice Range and Sight Range as talked about in APG and other books.

[Duke Bushido]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:47 AM, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Well, it would sure work well for Wizards who can cast spells a certain number of times per day, and it is tiring to cast them.  Or for an archer who has a limited quiver, and has to draw the bow.  But intuitive firearms were more important.  I blame the Harbinger of Justice!

 

 

 

 

It also works reallly well for,guns and bullets.  I dont do it as Charges, per say, but as an END pool.  The rules,for the recovey say eithe buy a spearate recovery or come,to terms about how the pool is recovered.  The pool is exactly enough to fire a full cylinder / magazine / belt / battery / whatever.  It is recharged by reloading.

 

Done.