How to link strength punches to other powers

[realnowhereman23]

Hello,  I'm running a superhero game and a couple of my players want to have powers that go off when they punch something.  1) The first player wishes to punch people and then do a drain and aid. He's bought the drain and aid separate. I designed them using trigger but I think I've accidentally over designed/made it cost way more than it should. He has a selective AoE HA attack and the idea is that he blinks around like nightcrawler draining targets and boosting himself. He doesn't always want to trigger the drain/aid as his special effect reason is that he can target specific energy points for the drain or just hit them normally. Is trigger the right way to do this?  2) The other player has a character that wants different attacks on each of his limbs. He's designed them as a multi power. Two of the limbs he's bought naked advantages for but the other two have powers attached. One is an AoE cone. The idea being that he kicks someone and it produces a large cone of fire on top of the target and up to 8m behind the target. The other attack is an entangle. He wants to punch someone and then lock them in a prison of ice. For both attacks he would like to hit them with his strength and then have the appropriate powers go off.  Is trigger the right way to go about these or should I be doing linked or something else entirely? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[IndianaJoe3]

These all sound like they're Combined Attacks (6e2 74). Basically, they are using multiple powers, but with the same attack action on the same target.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

The first player wishes to punch people and then do a drain and aid. He's bought the drain and aid separate. I designed them using trigger but I think I've accidentally over designed/made it cost way more than it should. He has a selective AoE HA attack and the idea is that he blinks around like nightcrawler draining targets and boosting himself.

 

Yeah the HTA is the easiest way to do it, link it to that, and then every time the character uses the HA (and STR) it goes off.

[dougmacd]

1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

These all sound like they're Combined Attacks (6e2 74). Basically, they are using multiple powers, but with the same attack action on the same target.

 

And if the drain/aid/blast/entangle can only be used on combination with the kick/punch (not by themselves), you would actually put a Linked limitation on them, not a Trigger advantage.

 

 

Doug

Since you mentioned being worried about making it cost too much.

[Jhamin]

9 hours ago, dougmacd said:

 

And if the drain/aid/blast/entangle can only be used on combination with the kick/punch (not by themselves), you would actually put a Linked limitation on them, not a Trigger advantage.

 

Note that if you link a power, it will *always* go off when whatever it is linked too is used, so if you link multiple things to their Str, all those things will go off with each physical attack.  If you want a different thing associated with each limb you will want to buy a multipower & link the whole multipower to the character's Str.  This gets a bit dicey as you officially aren't supposed to put naked advantages in a multipower and linking a whole power framework is pretty sketchy rules-wise, but both are things some GMs handwave.

Personally, I'd go with the Combined attack route, even though that adds some DCV penalties.  If he kicks hard *and* does a big AofE cone attack at the same time it's maybe OK that he takes some penalties.

 

On the other hand, if you care more about the effects than the Str damage, just have power like "fire-Cone kick: 10d6 AofE Cone".  When the player uses it you say its a kick, treat it like a kick, and don't worry about the Str part of it.  They don't take the Combined Attack penalties, their kick is a cone, but it only does damage once.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Combined attack doesn't have any penalties, Multiple Attack does.

[dougmacd]

2 hours ago, Jhamin said:

Note that if you link a power, it will *always* go off when whatever it is linked too is used, so if you link multiple things to their Str, all those things will go off with each physical attack.

 

Assuming the drain/aid/blast/entangle is more active points then the character's strength, apply Linked at the -¼ value: Greater power is Linked to lesser power; character can use lesser power without using greater power, but can only use greater power if he also uses lesser power, etc.

 

2 hours ago, Jhamin said:

On the other hand, if you care more about the effects than the Str damage, just have power like "fire-Cone kick: 10d6 AofE Cone".  When the player uses it you say its a kick, treat it like a kick, and don't worry about the Str part of it.

 

I'm also a fan of simplified constructs like this  🙂

 

 

Doug

[LoneWolf]

Actually you cannot link a power to STR it has to be linked to a specific use of STR.  So you can link it to punch or grab or whatever maneuver you want.  To create an affect that injures a target whenever you touch them you to use Area of Effect (Personal Surface – Damage Shield)  

[HeroGM]

You can use the main linked power without using the minor one.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, HeroGM said:

You can use the main linked power without using the minor one.

I’m pretty sure that for a lesser limitation, it can work the other way too. Say the Drain is bigger than the STR damage. 

[Ockham's Spoon]

But you don't have to use a power at full effect (unless you take that Limitation), so if you only want to one power in a linked combination to go off, can't you just say you are using the linked power at minimum effect?  Or do they have to scale together if they are linked?

[Hugh Neilson]

I find Linked easier to grasp if you think "Limited Power - must be used with other power".  The standard -1/2 on the smaller power means the greater power can be used on its own or with the Linked power, but the lesser power can only be used in tandem with the greater power.

 

The 1/4 is the same, but applied to the power with higher AP as the "lesser power".

 

The situation where the both must be used every time is judgemental.  To me, it would be more reasonable for the higher AP to get -1/4 and the lower AP to get -1/2.  We always have the "if it's not limiting, there's no point savings" rule to fall back on.

[Ninja-Bear]

3 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

But you don't have to use a power at full effect (unless you take that Limitation), so if you only want to one power in a linked combination to go off, can't you just say you are using the linked power at minimum effect?  Or do they have to scale together if they are linked?

I believe that you are supposed to scale powers by default. So if you use 8d6 of STR (out of 10D6) then you must scale back your Drain from 4D6 to 3D6. (Just pulled numbers outta air).

 

The more confusing question about Link (to me) is that wasn’t at one time Linked meant that you couldn’t just use only part of the Linked? You had to use both parts. 

[Derek Hiemforth]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

The more confusing question about Link (to me) is that wasn’t at one time Linked meant that you couldn’t just use only part of the Linked? You had to use both parts. 

 

It wasn't clear. Many people interpreted it the way you describe, but it wasn't necessarily written that way.  5E made it explicit how it works.

[indy523]

I think link is the way to go but I would turn it around.  I would create a STR based HTH KA or buy an HA (Hand Attack) that works with the strength.  The character can punch and decide whether to use the HA.  I would link the drain affects to the HA or HTH KA.  IT would get the benefit of the characters STR or his Martial Arts technique but be a different attack requiring the use of a separate power.  HA's can be not used with STR especially since they can be bought as a focus.

 

You do not need to drop a lot of points into the attacks.  A 2dice HA for 8 points (10 plus the required -14L) should suffice.  You only want some separate power that triggers the link.  Since it will most likely be less points than the Drain then it is only a -14L but so what it is not about points shaving but triggering it.

 

I think you will find this works better.