nedoking Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) Good Day All - First, a Thank You to those who have answered my questions previously. This one seems simple - however I felt it necessary to check as I cannot find a specific example of this circumstance. Knockback on page 166 of the BBB is "real close" - and I have used it in the past as substantiation for my ruling. Game: Champions 4th Ed Subject: Damage from Movement into Solid Object Example 1: A PC is moving at 20" (hexes) per phase and for whatever reason runs directly into a wall. For this example, the wall has Def=12 and Body=12. My understanding is that the PC would take 20d6, one d6 per inch of movement - similar to what would happen if Knocked Back into another PC or object. Assume that the roll was STUN=70 & BODY=20 - so the PC does not go through the wall and the PC would take the STUN & BODY rolled from the 20d6 (apply defenses). Example 2: If the roll had BODY=26, then the PC would have still taken the 20d6 damage as that was equal to the movement when impact occurred. However, the wall would have broken and the PC would have been Knocked Back another 2 hexes. If the PC had been moving at 30", then the PC would have taken a max of 24d6, per the Knockback example on Page 166 of BBB. Question: Are these correct interpretations of the situation? If not, please point me to a page in the BBB or other supplement that clarifies. Edited May 23, 2021 by nedoking Corrected errors (typoes, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted May 24, 2021 Report Share Posted May 24, 2021 Is the character aware of the wall? If so they could do a mover through on the wall and if they do enough body to break through the wall take less damage. Grailknight and Beast 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted May 24, 2021 Report Share Posted May 24, 2021 Also by doing a move through, they will take less damage even if they fail to break the wall. They could elect to use 0 STR and take 7d6 moving at 20" or 10d6 moving at 30". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedoking Posted May 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2021 Good point - In this instance I was thinking that they were not aware of the wall and Move Through did not apply. For example, the PC is Desolid and runs through a wall - only to find that it Effects Desolid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted May 29, 2021 Report Share Posted May 29, 2021 Not sure which edition casual STR started in, I also no longer have my 4th edition books so cannot look it up. But a character can use casual STR to burst through a wall or other barrier without being slowed down. For that reason I would still treat it like a move through. I would not use the knockback rules because when a character doing a full move it takes longer than it does to be knocked back. Knock back is closer to falling damage where you move every segment than character movement where you are only moving on your phases. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedoking Posted May 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2021 LoneWolf & Grailknight - thank you for sharing your thoughts and making the suggestions. I truly appreciate discussing and better understanding the rules. I had not considered Move Through previously. My reason was that the PC was not expecting to "hit a wall". I would think that when executing a Move Through, the PC would be like a Linebacker who KNEW s/he was about to hit something. In this situation it would be unexpected. My real life experience is that when I hit something unexpectedly - it seems to "hurt more". However, your feedback has me reconsidering this line of thinking. Applying Casual Strength is also a great idea. The PC may not have "meant" to do it - but it might be a reasonable application in this instance. BTW - I know 4th Edition is a little out of date - however I had the materials and started an online game due to the pandemic (thinking it would only last 6-8 sessions). The crazy part is that the players are having a blast and wanna keep going - and I don't wanna switch systems on them. Again, thank you. Please share any other thoughts on the matter if they occur to you. Opal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Nedoking, You can use Move Through and consider the character Surprised (page 151). I think that does what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 I suppose falling damage would be another close rule to look at. One consideration is that KB is instantaneous, falling velocity is per segment, and movement is per phase, so a hex of one is not exactly like 1" of another. (I've occasionally thought it'd be a good idea to standardize all movement on inches/segment.) I like the move-through and casual STR suggestions. Though it's slightly odd that a character making a concerted attack like a move through may do less damage to the wall than if he just crashed into it accidentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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