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Any Good 4th or 5th edition versions of Silver Surfer or similar character?


Tywyll

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I don't know of a build explicitly of the Silver Surfer offhand. I might look at some sources online when I have the time. But as far as a writeup for a character similar to the Surfer in the iterations of Hero you specify, I would suggest The Infinite Man, from Alien Enemies, for 4E. He's a "cosmic entity," in personality very similar to the Beyonder from Marvel Comics, but his power level is closer to that of SS, especially compared to the most recent "cosmic" types in Champions publications. TIM has very high Characteristics across the board, particularly DEX and SPD which are Surfer-class, plus a 250-point Cosmic VPP. He also has a large Clairsentience Power which could be taken as an analogue for Norrin Radd's cosmic senses. He has a few other abilities, but the previously-mentioned ones are his most distinctive and defining. About the only comparable thing he lacks is the Surfer's board.

 

The Infinite Man clocks in at over 1,300 Character Points, although I didn't check the accuracy of that infamous 4E published character math. ;)

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The Omlevex supplement had a surfer homage called Omega max.  I translated him from M&M to Hero and I'll post him here:

 

Quote

2018 #33  Omega Max

 

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

17 STR 7 12- Lift 263.9kg; 3d6 [2]

18 DEX 24 15- OCV:  10/DCV:  10

18 CON 16 15-

10 BODY 0 11-

30 INT 20 15- PER Roll 15-

25 EGO 30 14- ECV:  8

18 PRE 8 13- PRE Attack:  3 ½d6

14 COM 2 12-

 

8+25 PD 5 Total:  8/33 PD (8/33 rPD)

8+25 ED 2 Total:  8/33 ED (8/33 rED)

6 SPD 21 Phases:  2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

9 REC 0

56 END 0

33 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost:  135

 

Movement: Running: 6"/12"

Flight: 30"/60"

Leaping: 3"/6"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Cost Powers END

8 Damage Resistance (8 PD/8 ED)

 

50 Armor (25 PD/25 ED) (75 Active Points); OIF (-½)

22 +11 DEX (33 Active Points); OIF (-½)

13 +10 CON (20 Active Points); OIF (-½)

 

17 Life Support  (Eating: Character does not eat; Safe Environment: Zero Gravity; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) (26 Active Points); OIF (-½)

 

37 Invisibility to Sight Group , No Fringe, Reduced Endurance (½ END; +¼) (37 Active Points) 1

 

 

60 Multipower, 90-point reserve,  (90 Active Points); all slots OIF (-½)

6u 1)  Flight 30", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (90 Active Points); OIF (-½)

1u 2)  Faster-Than-Light Travel (3 Light Years/month) (20 Active Points); OIF (-½)

 

53 Energy Blast 16d6 (80 Active Points); OIF (-½) 8

 

Talents

3 Absolute Range Sense

3 Absolute Time Sense

3 Bump Of Direction

 

Skills

3 Armorsmith 15-

5 Cramming

5 Cramming

5 Cramming

3 Demolitions 15-

3 Electronics 15-

3 Mechanics 15-

3 Inventor 15-

3 Navigation 15-

3 Paramedics 15-

3 Power 15-

3 Science Skill:  Giga rays 15-

3 Science Skill:  Physics 15-

3 Science Skill:  Mechanical Eng 15-

3 Science Skill:  Electrical eng 15-

20 +4 with Ranged Combat

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost:  347

Total Cost:  482

 

200+ Disadvantages

10 Distinctive Features:  (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

15 Psychological Limitation:  Revenge driven (Common; Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation:  Must help those in need! (Common; Strong)

242 Experience Points

 

Total Disadvantage Points:  482

Earned Experience:  0

Spent Experience:  242

Unspent Experience:  0

 

Background/History:  Max Sol is an example of the downside of Grunn's vision. Grunn linked their world and immediately it was invaded by a horde from another planet.  They killed all on his planet. He managed to get away due to his harnessing of a new technology he developed. Realising he could not save his planet, he went out into space to oppose Grunn and prevent what happened to his people to happen to others.  Along the way he has aided countless others, and so Omega Max, the Blue Beam, is known as a force for good!

 

Personality/Motivation:  A righteous man out for revenge.  He is altruistic, always willing to help those in need.  But eventually he goes back to his quest!

 

Quote:  

 

Powers/Tactics:  His suit allows him to tap into a new energy source.  This source protects him, even in space. It also powers his metallic disc he rides, and from which he fires devastating beams of energy.  As such, he never gets close. He'll stay at range, and hit his opponent at range!

 

Campaign Use:  A powerful ally.  He may make earth an adopted home.  Any world spanning threats and he's a valuable ally.

 

Appearance:  He looks vaguely human, but is clearly not.  He wears a dark blue body suit with light blue trim.  He is never without his dark blue metallic disc!

 

 

Feel free to adapt and modify as you see fit!

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Life support and an awesomely huge cosmic VPP.

 

The Silver Surfer has casually blown away planets before with his energy blast (Annihilation: Silver Surfer #4).

 

So if you're talking an Earth-style world, make sure he can average 84 BODY with his RKA. So about a 24d6 RKA out of his VPP.

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Let's look at my copy of Champions Villains Volume One. Villains with pure space origins. 

 

Istvatga V'Han: Page 59-65. She is only 801 points, but that doesn't count in all her bases and agents. She is litterly a pan-dimensional conquer. If push comes to shove, she can open a rift of dimensional energy which causes up to 20d6 damage (normal defenses apply, and doesn't cause knockback). But she doesn't actually need to attack herself, as long as she can port in as many henchmen and agents she wishes.

 

Mechanon: Pages 99-117. He is 2,237 points. I'm not going to speak about his attacks. He is a robot from the future, and can easily operate off planet as well as on. I especially love the Champions 3000 version, but that version is not listed here. Not only that, he has on his command the alien android Avar-7.

 

Professor Paradigm: Page 142-152. An earthling mad scientist who is obsessed with the nature of Reality. The nature of Reality is the same here in Earth as it is on Locnar 7. And needs to have the truth revealed. He is only 667 points.

 

The Slug: Pages 191-197. A human changed into an Elder Worm, an ancient alien who once ruled the Earth, and his race still has strongholds across the universe.  He is 768 points. 

 

And of course, we have in Villains Volume 3 Firewing, who is appropriate for cosmic characters.

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, archer said:

Life support and an awesomely huge cosmic VPP.

 

The Silver Surfer has casually blown away planets before with his energy blast (Annihilation: Silver Surfer #4).

 

So if you're talking an Earth-style world, make sure he can average 84 BODY with his RKA. So about a 24d6 RKA out of his VPP.

 

Like so many other comic-book supers, the Surfer's power level varies with the intentions of the plot. A feat of that magnitude would be an exception over his long history.

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3 hours ago, steriaca said:

Let's look at my copy of Champions Villains Volume One. Villains with pure space origins. 

 

Istvatga V'Han: Page 59-65. She is only 801 points, but that doesn't count in all her bases and agents. She is litterly a pan-dimensional conquer. If push comes to shove, she can open a rift of dimensional energy which causes up to 20d6 damage (normal defenses apply, and doesn't cause knockback). But she doesn't actually need to attack herself, as long as she can port in as many henchmen and agents she wishes.

 

Mechanon: Pages 99-117. He is 2,237 points. I'm not going to speak about his attacks. He is a robot from the future, and can easily operate off planet as well as on. I especially love the Champions 3000 version, but that version is not listed here. Not only that, he has on his command the alien android Avar-7.

 

Professor Paradigm: Page 142-152. An earthling mad scientist who is obsessed with the nature of Reality. The nature of Reality is the same here in Earth as it is on Locnar 7. And needs to have the truth revealed. He is only 667 points.

 

The Slug: Pages 191-197. A human changed into an Elder Worm, an ancient alien who once ruled the Earth, and his race still has strongholds across the universe.  He is 768 points. 

 

And of course, we have in Villains Volume 3 Firewing, who is appropriate for cosmic characters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! These are 6th Edition but would definitely give me some ideas.

 

I forgot about Prof Paradigm, though I find that character to be pretty tasteless as it is pretty clearly making a mockery of Phil Brucato, the game designer responsible for Mage the Ascension. 

4 hours ago, Mr. R said:

The Omlevex supplement had a surfer homage called Omega max.  I translated him from M&M to Hero and I'll post him here:

 

 

 

Feel free to adapt and modify as you see fit!

Thanks! Very interesting.

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5 hours ago, Tywyll said:

 

I forgot about Prof Paradigm, though I find that character to be pretty tasteless as it is pretty clearly making a mockery of Phil Brucato, the game designer responsible for Mage the Ascension.

 

I've never come across that position before, but I'm not familiar with Brucato's work. Don't mean to derail, but would you mind giving just the high points of why you see it that way? PP is one of my favorite new 6E Champs villains.

 

If you're interested in variations on the theme of "wandering cosmic superhero" but not necessarily being very Silver Surfer-like, I suggest looking at Supernova from Galactic Champions, for Fifth Edition. He fills that niche in the GC super ecology, although his build is as much brick as energy projector. Another difference is that he's not all a big VPP, but has other defined Powers. And his character concept is distinctive, although a bit like Legion from Marvel Comics.

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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Actually, Prof. Paradigm is only 6E. But you're right about the others.

I guess he could be de-editioned by a dedicated sort.

 

He and his crew reminds me of a saner Brotherhood of Dada of the Doom Patrol fame.

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On 5/26/2021 at 1:27 AM, Tywyll said:

Phil Brucato, the game designer responsible for Mage the Ascension

 

On 5/26/2021 at 6:44 AM, Lord Liaden said:

I'm not familiar with Brucato's work. Don't mean to derail, but would you mind giving just the high points

Brucato was the lead on M:tA for its second, more coherent/less inspired, edition.

 

Stewart Wieck was the primary on the original.

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I can't speak to Mr. Brucato's personality or personal philosophy since I only met him once and never worked with him, but "paradigm" is a big buzzword in Mage: the Ascension, and "What is reality, really" is an important concept. If Prof. Paradigm isn't an in-joke on Brucato personally, it seems very much an in-joke on his role as one of Mage's developers, and on the game.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

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2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I can't speak to Mr. Brucato's personality or personal philosophy since I only met him once and never worked with him, but "paradigm" is a big buzzword in Mage: the Ascension, and "What is reality, really" is an important concept. If Prof. Paradigm isn't an in-joke on Brucato personally, it seems very much an in-joke on his role as one of Mage's developers, and on the game.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

Heaven forbid, slamming a gaming reference into a Mister Nobody proxy. What's a GM to do?

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13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Okay. Is his personality\philosophy supposed to resemble Paradigm's?

Paradigm is just a major concept in Mage.  Each Mage tradition - and their foes the Technocracy - is pushing their own paradigm, it's how their magick works (including technology, which is the technocracy's paradigm of magick).

 

Unless Paradigm's secret Id is Bill Frucato or something, I doubt the reference is personal - even if the M:tA reference was intentional.

 

*Full disclosure:  "Bill Frucato" and "Jessica Heinous" just may have been used in Mage parody back on usenet alt.games.white-wolf days... I'm sure they weren't the only ones working for "Black  Dog Game Factory" .... 

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I sadly lost the homebrew writeup I did for the Surfer when that Matt Fraction Defenders maxi-series was being published, but I recall that I gave him a 250 pool/125 control cost Cosmic VPP, cosmic senses patterned after the ones certain characters in Champions Beyond possessed, and I believe 40/30 PD and ED.

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O.P. I'm trying to understand your question; are you asking:

  1. Does anyone have ANY SS builds (regardless of how close it is with the numbers)?
  2. Does anyone have A SS build that would fit in a "normal game"?
  3. Does someone have a "legit" SS build, based on X point and time SS from Marvel Comics, issues xx to yy?

I am thinking of my recent experience making a version of Binary for my wife...  1500 points later, and she's still not as powerful as I would put the "average" Binary...  The reason I'm asking for clarification, goes back to a point I made a LONG time ago - which is basically if you want an "accurate" build for any comic book character, you have to be very specific about exactly when you are talking; comic book characters change dramatically based on who is writing/penciling/inking them, what they need for a plot point in the story, and over longer spans, how society changes.

 

A simple SS example: at one point after Frankie became Nova and Galactus' new Herold - SS was trying to explain to her how, even though she was finding planets with no intelligent life on them NOW, that would not always be the case - so, she jumps on his board (because SHE COULDN'T FLY FAST ENOUGH) and he flew so fast around the planet as to go hundreds of thousands of years into the future, showing her how intelligent life would evolve on that planet.  By the way, the fact that he did this, seemed localized, as clearly not only did Galactus not "eat" the planet, but nothing else affected it either...  Then, they simply returned to "current" time (I don't think they even showed them do that, I'd have to go dig it out and look)...

 

Now imagine trying to put points to that one power he seemed to develop on the fly, like it was nothing; and I am unaware of him ever using it in this way again...

 

Obvious plot point by that author - but, also a legit power from that point in time for that character.

 

Much like Racheal Summers Phoenix almost absorbing all or most of the lifeforce in the ENTIRE Marvel universe, to kill someone; not once, but TWICE!  The Beyonder AND Galactus - at different points, with different authors...

 

Again, obvious plot point by those authors - but, also legit power from those TWO points of time for that character...

 

The same can be said for wild fluctuations for the Hulk as an example in Marvel, but also Superman, Wonderwoman and others in DC as well - again, all based on what the writer and artists needed for that particular plot, or how society had changed over the years (remember the cover of Superman barely lifting a car?  Or how WW evolved over the years?).

 

Sorry, I just realized I had gotten on my soapbox again, without even noticing it...  <Soapbox mode, disengaged>

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I for one find your soapbox quite entertaining. :yes:

 

2 hours ago, Echo3Niner said:

 

A simple SS example: at one point after Frankie became Nova and Galactus' new Herold - SS was trying to explain to her how, even though she was finding planets with no intelligent life on them NOW, that would not always be the case - so, she jumps on his board (because SHE COULDN'T FLY FAST ENOUGH) and he flew so fast around the planet as to go hundreds of thousands of years into the future, showing her how intelligent life would evolve on that planet.  By the way, the fact that he did this, seemed localized, as clearly not only did Galactus not "eat" the planet, but nothing else affected it either...  Then, they simply returned to "current" time (I don't think they even showed them do that, I'd have to go dig it out and look)...

 

 

As a point of trivia, I remember the Surfer doing that once before, 'way back in 1969 for Silver Surfer issue #6. Norrin bypassed Galactus' barrier around the Earth by traveling to the far future when it was no longer in place, by the means you describe. There he discovered that the Earth, and much of the universe, had been devastated and conquered by an incredibly powerful mutant calling himself the Overlord. Unable to defeat the Overlord, the Surfer traveled back in time to the accident which created him, and prevented it from ever happening. Then he returned to the present. (Now, if he'd only thought to return to the present outside the barrier...) :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I for one find your soapbox quite entertaining. :yes:

 

 

As a point of trivia, I remember the Surfer doing that once before, 'way back in 1969 for Silver Surfer issue #6. Norrin bypassed Galactus' barrier around the Earth by traveling to the far future when it was no longer in place, by the means you describe. There he discovered that the Earth, and much of the universe, had been devastated and conquered by an incredibly powerful mutant calling himself the Overlord. Unable to defeat the Overlord, the Surfer traveled back in time to the accident which created him, and prevented it from ever happening. Then he returned to the present. (Now, if he'd only thought to return to the present outside the barrier...) :rolleyes:

 

THEN, to find out in Fantastic Four, that the barrier was ONLY ON HIS BOARD!  So, all he had to do was dismiss his board, the FF used their super flying car to lift him beyond the shield, then he spawned a new board, and off he went!!!

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Another good template for a Surfer-type would be the mightiest hero of Canada, Celestar, from  Champions Of The North. A being of "living cosmic energy," Celestar isn't quite Surfer-class in magnitude or versatility of powers, but his style is very cosmic-blast-throwing, and he's spent an extended period in space, which he's well-suited to.

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On 6/4/2021 at 8:44 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Another good template for a Surfer-type would be the mightiest hero of Canada, Celestar, from  Champions Of The North. A being of "living cosmic energy," Celestar isn't quite Surfer-class in magnitude or versatility of powers, but his style is very cosmic-blast-throwing, and he's spent an extended period in space, which he's well-suited to.

I didn't find him in Champions Of The North, nor in the book index of all the heroes & villains. Tried page by page and he's not there. Was he from somewhere else?

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Many years ago, someone posted a detailed 4E Silver Surfer write-up to an early incarnation of these forums. I'm afraid I can't remember the person's name, and not a lot of the details; but one thing that stuck in my mind was that they built the Surfer's Power Cosmic as a series of cumulative Variable Power Pools which added together. All Powers in the Pool cost Endurance, but each Pool had a progressively higher Increased END Limitation for all of them, as a game-balancing factor. When all VPP were used together they allowed this version of the Surfer to throw epic attacks or other effects, but which left him almost drained of END.

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Firewing comes to mind for me for a Silver Surfer type character, who's been around since 3rd Edition if I remember correctly. Here's a brief snapshot from 4th Edition Classic Enemies:

 

FIREWING

STR 40

DEX 30

CON 45

BODY 15

INT 20

EGO 20

PRE 40

COM 20

PD 15

ED 15

SPD 7

REC 22

END 90

STUN 78

 

Powers

Multipower:

1) 16d6 EB

2) 12d6 Explosion

3) 10d6 EB, Armor Piercing

4) 12d6 EB, Affects Desolid

5) Force Field +20 PD, +20 ED, Hardened

Flash Defense 5

Full Life Support

20'' Flight

Faster Than Light Travel (32 LY/Year)

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