Damage Shields without a structure

[Christopher R Taylor]

Is there any way to create a free-floating damage shield?  That is, one without being placed on something?

 

Damage Shields at present require AE Surface, so that it applies to an area that is touched, such as a person or an object. But what if there's nothing there to be attached to?  In other words, can you build a damage shield that is like a wall of fire in the air, without being attached to something?  Can you legally buy a surface AE on nothing? 

 

Just buying a wall with, say, AE line makes it a constant, uncontrolled thing that only deals damage on the creator's phases.  Trigger makes the entire construct significantly more expensive (turning it into a 5th edition construct).  Barrier would provide something for the surface to attach to, but collapses when breached; you cannot really make a barrier that is only there to serve as a surface, but doesn't get collapsed.

[Greywind]

Use Barrier as the basis for it? Give it minimal stats, Desolid, and Affects Physical World advantage.

[Christopher R Taylor]

How do you make a barrier desolidified?  I mean putting aside the cost.

[Greywind]

As a player, discuss with the GM.

 

As a GM, waive the cost.

[Tom Cowan]

you could also just use AoE line rather then AoE Surface for a wall of fire

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

you could also just use AoE line rather then AoE Surface for a wall of fire

 

But as I pointed out, that just creates an uncontrolled constant power; it only does damage on the phase of the person who created it. Its not a damage shield.

[Dr.Device]

15 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

But as I pointed out, that just creates an uncontrolled constant power; it only does damage on the phase of the person who created it. Its not a damage shield.

 

As far as I can tell, it works the same. An area-affecting constant power affects anyone who enters it when the enter it, and every one of the power owner's phases thereafter while they remain in it. A Damage shield using area of affect-surface affects anyone who touches it when they touch it, and every one of the power owner's phases thereafter while they remain in contact with it.

[Ninja-Bear]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Device said:

 

As far as I can tell, it works the same. An area-affecting constant power affects anyone who enters it when the enter it, and every one of the power owner's phases thereafter while they remain in it. A Damage shield using area of affect-surface affects anyone who touches it when they touch it, and every one of the power owner's phases thereafter while they remain in contact with it.

That sounds reasonable.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its worth asking in the official question thread, but I have found nothing in the rules ever that says that buying a area constant makes it do damage every segment someone bumps into it, only on the phases of the creator.  Damage Shield is, as far as I can tell, the only thing that goes off every time in response to interaction without regard to the player's speed.  That's why 5th edition had that hideous trigger construction

[Dr.Device]

6Ev1 p127
 

AREA-AFFECTING CONSTANT POWERS

If a Constant Power affects an Area (either inherently or because the character purchases the Area Of Effect Advantage for it), the Power remains in effect in the Segments between the attacker’s Phases. Any target who enters the area takes damage or is affected in the Segment he enters and every time the attacker’s Phase occurs while the target remains within the area.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Thanks for the help Dr Device!

 

Here is what the spell ended up looking like:

 

Wall of Wind:  Blast 5d6 vs PD (Wind)

Costs Mana Only To Activate (+1/4), Does Knockback (+1/4), Indirect (Perpendicular to caster; +1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Long, 3m Tall, 2m Wide Line; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Double Knockback (+1/2) (94 Active Points);

Magic (-1), OAF (Only to start; -1/2), Side Effects (Entangle 3d6 1 PD, 1 ED; 1d6 each phase until free, transparent to all attacks; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4), Short Range (94m; -1/4)

 

*Magic is a catch-all grouping of limitations that all spells must take in my campaign.  I bought indirect so the line doesn't go out from the caster's facing, but shows up as a wall in front of them.

 

So it creates a wall 8m wide by 3m tall that does 5d6 and double knockback (away from the wall, of course) to anyone that encounters it or tries to go through.  If I wanted to jack up the cost even more I'd tie in some kind of missile deflection but its already hella expensive and only the most vastly powerful wizards can even attempt it.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Why does it need 'Does Knockback'?  

 

[Duke Bushido]

Dr. D beat me to it: you are technically attaching it to something; you are attaching it to a specific location.

[Greywind]

7 minutes ago, Nekkidcarpenter said:

Why does it need 'Does Knockback'? 

 

Repulsion field?

[Christopher R Taylor]

As a heroic game, the default rules for the setting are no knockback (this is a fantasy setting, and only special attacks can do knockback).  Knockback is still calculated, but only to determine knockdown (fall the same 2m area) rather than knocking them flying.  This spell blasts them with wind up to a maximum effect of 32m, average around 6m.

[archer]

6 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Is there any way to create a free-floating damage shield?  That is, one without being placed on something?

 

Damage Shields at present require AE Surface, so that it applies to an area that is touched, such as a person or an object. But what if there's nothing there to be attached to?  In other words, can you build a damage shield that is like a wall of fire in the air, without being attached to something?  Can you legally buy a surface AE on nothing? 

 

Just buying a wall with, say, AE line makes it a constant, uncontrolled thing that only deals damage on the creator's phases.  Trigger makes the entire construct significantly more expensive (turning it into a 5th edition construct).  Barrier would provide something for the surface to attach to, but collapses when breached; you cannot really make a barrier that is only there to serve as a surface, but doesn't get collapsed.

 

You used to be able to buy a Barrier which was totally transparent to physical damage or energy damage.

 

Sounds like you could buy both and get what you want.

[Tjack]

What is this supposed to be?  I always look at these things from the outside in.  First I imagine a thing and then figure out how best to describe it within the framework of the rules.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Christopher R Taylor, if I’m understanding your Indirect, I don’t think you need it. You are paying for the dimensions of the Barrier. So it is Perpendicular by its nature.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well its two fold but line effects by from what I understand in the rules come from you and go their distance.  The height is purchased at a different cost than the length.  Plus, the indirect makes the blast knock people sideways from the wall, not toward its end. 

 

Line effects are usually like a flame thrower, basically a really big, fat beam coming from point A and going toward B, as I understand it and the descriptions/images of the rules show.  That would knock you toward the end, not to the side.

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Well its two fold but line effects by from what I understand in the rules come from you and go their distance.  The height is purchased at a different cost than the length.  Plus, the indirect makes the blast knock people sideways from the wall, not toward its end. 

 

Line effects are usually like a flame thrower, basically a really big, fat beam coming from point A and going toward B, as I understand it and the descriptions/images of the rules show.  That would knock you toward the end, not to the side.

But you’re buying it as barrier, no? Would you think you’d need it if you bought it as Force Wall pre 6th? I think you are over thinking it. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its not attached to a barrier, its just a line.

[Ninja-Bear]

20 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Its not attached to a barrier, its just a line.

Aha! My bad! Ok then.

[Duke Bushido]

18 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Well its two fold but line effects by from what I understand in the rules come from you and go their distance.  The height is purchased at a different cost than the length.  Plus, the indirect makes the blast knock people sideways from the wall, not toward its end. 

 

Line effects are usually like a flame thrower, basically a really big, fat beam coming from point A and going toward B, as I understand it and the descriptions/images of the rules show.  That would knock you toward the end, not to the side.

 

 

You're not wrong, at least in how a line works.

 

A flame thrower, though, is more typically AoE: Line, No Range.  It doesn't have to be, but it models them pretty nicely.

 

An AoE starts at your target hex and grows from there.  Thus, a regular Blast Attack with AOE: Radius starts the radius from the target hex, even if that target hex is at the maximum of your range.

 

CAVEAT:  If this changed in 5e, I missed it.  If it changed in 6e, same thing.

 

I know many of you have heard various tales of a former player named Davien.  Davien was the sort of guy-- if I ever find the time to indulge my writing the way I used to be able to, I'd like to write an adventure campaign with him as the mastermind behind it all, just so that I know scattered around the world, hundreds-- perhaps _thousands!_-- of adventurers are beating the snot out of him....

 

Anyway, one of Davien's problems was his inability to grasp AoE as _anything_ other than extra range:   What?  he's eight inches out of range?  I'll switch to my AoE attack!

 

Davien, you are in a subway terminal!

 

So he can't run, can he?

 

Anyway, my original comment was this:

 

We know that there is (or was) an AoE: "any shape" or "fills the room" or whatever it was.  I don't know; I think the only player I ever had use that option put it on Change Environment to create freeze chambers and walk-in pizza ovens.

 

The diagrams typically demonstrate an attack with the AoE Line starting from the target hex and continuing on in the same direction, etc.

 

Is it spelled out specifically that the Line can't be perpendicular to the direction of the attack?  Or any other angle?

 

Given that all other forms of AoE (to include Explosion) have a default "every direction," and that things that have a default AoE like Force Wall / Barrier are typically cast in perpendicular lines, is it not justifiable that for the purpose of your build one could simply declare that "the Line for this power works thusly."  We used to have a lot of things like that in this game.  There used to be a lot of "must be defined at time of purchase" abilities.  Now we have thirteen hundred pages of "must work this way."   Just take a step back.  Even if you want to one-hundred percent go "by the book," if you find room for interpretation (ie, "it's not specifically spelled out, but there are other existing constructs that work like my concept") then just declare it and be done.

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

40 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

We know that there is (or was) an AoE: "any shape" or "fills the room" or whatever it was.  I don't know; I think the only player I ever had use that option put it on Change Environment to create freeze chambers and walk-in pizza ovens.

 

Walk-in pizza oven???  
SOLD!!!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Given that all other forms of AoE (to include Explosion) have a default "every direction," and that things that have a default AoE like Force Wall / Barrier are typically cast in perpendicular lines, is it not justifiable that for the purpose of your build one could simply declare that "the Line for this power works thusly."  We used to have a lot of things like that in this game.  There used to be a lot of "must be defined at time of purchase" abilities.  Now we have thirteen hundred pages of "must work this way."   Just take a step back.  Even if you want to one-hundred percent go "by the book," if you find room for interpretation (ie, "it's not specifically spelled out, but there are other existing constructs that work like my concept") then just declare it and be done.

 

Honestly, I agree.  I don't see any particular boost of power from having a line behave differently, its just shaped in a different manner.  Is knocking people sideways more powerful than knocking them along the line?  It seems like if you define it the way it works, it just stays that way each time.