Fun new ideas

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Smart weapon that shifts between PD and ED?  HOW? 

 

Super science weapon that adjusts its damage on the target with gravitic and radiation tachyons adjusting the Heisenberg horizon

[dmjalund]

isn't just another type of AVLD?

[unclevlad]

No, because it's useless against anyone with balanced, regular defenses...and mostly useless as long as the defenses are pretty close to each other...so it's only "AVLD" when they're notably skewed.  But in that case...yeah, it's pretty similar.  Which is the issue raised earlier, that it feels very metagame-y.

 

 

 

[DreadDomain]

Here is another idea, that expands the concept that Complications are used to generate HAP, by applying it to limitations:

 

Limitations

Limitations are categorized between hard limitations, clearly defining the limits of a power, or situational limitations, limitations that are triggered by event or story elements which players and GM can control and influence. Hard Limitations work as per the normal rules. They are used to define a power and determine the final cost.

 

Situational Limitations do not factor into the cost of the power. They are activated by the player or the GM during play based on the narrative of the story. By calling a Limitation on him, the player gets 1 HAP and accept the consequences laid out by the GM and/or other players (note that the GM could turn down the activation of the Limitation). The GM can also call a Limitation on a player, with the same drawbacks and benefits stated above.  A player could turn down the activation from the GM by accepting a harsher consequence later in the story or by paying 1 HAP (GM’s choice). The future consequence must be related to the Limitation.

 

Which limitation is Hard and which is Situational is a campaign decision that GM and players must make.  There are four modes:

 

1) All Hard: This is the default mode found in the RAW. All Limitations are used to build powers and factor in the final cost.

 

2) Mixed: In this mode, the limitations are clearly divided between Hard Limitations and Situational Limitations. Which falls into what category is a campaign decision agreed between GM and players. Here is an example below:

 

Hard Limitations

• Duration - Limitations Power has a worse than normal duration
• Concentration - Character has reduced DCV and PER Rolls when activating or using power
• Extra Time - Power takes longer than normal to activate or use
• Inaccurate - Power is less accurate than normal
• Linked - Power can only be used when another power is used
• No Conscious Control - Character cannot control use of power
• Perceivable - A normally invisible power is perceivable
• Range Limitations - Power has no range, or less range than normal, or functions less effectively at range
• Reduced Penetration - Power penetrates defenses less well than ordinary attacks
• Requires A Roll - Character must make a roll of some sort to use power
• Requires Multiple Users - Two or more characters must use power for it to work
• Side Effects - If power fails to work, character suffers harm
• Unified Power - Two or more powers are affected simultaneously by negative Adjustment Powers
• Variable Limitations - Character can change Limitations on power as a Full Phase Action

 

Situational Limitations (The players or GM can activate it when it makes the story more interesting)

• Always On - Power cannot be turned off, but it’s not necessarily always a problem
• Charges – No need to count charges.
• Endurance Limitations – Take a hint from HS6E1 pp46, remove END and replace it by the limitation Tiring. Pushing is automatically Tiring (or uses HAP instead).
• Focus - Power works through an object or device but it’s not necessarily always a problem
• Gestures - Character must make special, distinctive gestures to use power but it’s not necessarily always a problem
• Incantations - Character must speak special, distinctive words to use power but it’s not necessarily always a problem
• Limited Power - Power is restricted in some way defined by character
• Lockout - Using power prevents use of other powers
• Only In Alternate Identity - Power only works for one of the character’s identities
• Physical Manifestation - Power has a physical manifestation other characters can attack
• Restrainable - Grabs or Entangles prevent use of power

 

3) All Situational: In this mode, power construction is greatly simplified. All Limitations are used as narrative tag to be used in game to create the story and generate HAP. In this mode, GM and character should review and simplify the Limitations available and might even make some exceptions. A Limited Range limitation works well as a Situational Limitation, but a No Range limitation might not. It could be removed entirely or kept as a Hard Limitation. Another way to resolve this is to turn some limitations around. For some limitations, it makes sense that by activating a limitation a character increases their power instead of getting 1 HAP. Concentration and Inaccurate are good example of this.

 

4) Fluid: This mode leaves the decision in the hand on the players. Player A might create a power with a specific number of Charges, with the Hard Limitation factored into the cost and Player B might use Charge as a Situational Limitation.  Player A might end up with a more powerful character on paper, but Player B might have a character with the ability to generate more HAP giving them a lot more narrative control. This mode requires the GM and players to experiment to ensure game balance.

[unclevlad]

We don't need to make power building any more complicated, and/or make the GM's job more complicated.

 

 

 

[DreadDomain]

15 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

We don't need to make power building any more complicated, and/or make the GM's job more complicated.

 

 

 

Clearly not a fan 😁

[unclevlad]

And I try so hard to be subtle.....

 

Much of this is, this isn't an isolated, low-impact change.  It's a significant change to basic powers definition, so it's as broad as it can get.  

 

Now...we can connect this to the discussion that, in non-combat time, few limitations are meaningful at all.  That might be the notion you're trying to get to...Gestures is meaningless when you have no one to observe them.  But, so are longer Duration limits.  6 hour duration is -1/2;  that's a long time.  Odds are you can do it when it's trivial to do so.  Requires a (Skill) Roll is absolutely that way.  Power didn't work?  Do it again.  

 

This is a core, fundamental system issue;  the basic instruction is, it's the GM's job to approve these things, so something like this defensive power:

Personal Shield:  8 PD, 8 ED resistant and hardened (30 active) plus 12 PD, 12 ED.  54 active total.  Requires a Skill Roll, Concentration 1/2 DCV, full phase to activate.  Total -1 in limits, so 27 final.  Technically never goes down once activated...you could swap the full phase for Nonpersistent...or at that point, spend a few more points and drop the Concentration too.  So just RSR and Nonpersistent, so if you get knocked out?  You generally bring it right back.  (I always assume that RSR is going to be applied in multiple places, not just one spot.)

 

So...what does the GM do?  Reject the power in its entirety?  Or build a house rule to cover situations like this?  Reduce the overall value of the limitation?  That just begs adding more limits like gestures and incants, or going to DCV 0.  Plus:  with that 54 point power, a -1 limitation drops it to 27, but a -1/2 (reduce the value of the limitation by 50%) takes it from 54 to 36, so MUCH of the savings is intact.

 

It can be a mess very easily.  Especially when building a character with a VPP....

[DreadDomain]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

And I try so hard to be subtle.....

Sure, but I am super perceptive...

 

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Much of this is, this isn't an isolated, low-impact change.  It's a significant change to basic powers definition, so it's as broad as it can get. 

No doubt. In all the ideas that I had, this is easily the more far reaching.

 

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Now...we can connect this to the discussion that, in non-combat time, few limitations are meaningful at all.  That might be the notion you're trying to get to...Gestures is meaningless when you have no one to observe them.  But, so are longer Duration limits.  6 hour duration is -1/2;  that's a long time.  Odds are you can do it when it's trivial to do so.  Requires a (Skill) Roll is absolutely that way.  Power didn't work?  Do it again. 

Actually, I am generally quite happy with how balanced HERO. I don't agree with everything all the time but it's close. The idea came really from the intersection of two very distinct notions.

 

First, some people find building powers in HERO complex and, I believe, what raises the complexity are the power modifiers, where you need first to consider the advantage to get the Active Points (a value that is important) and then the limitations to get the Real Cost (another important value).

Second, players in HERO need more tools to enhance their narrative control. Using Complications as HAP generators (instead of character points) is a fairly easy way to more more of it.

 

Note that I do not personally feel strongly about these two notions but I was intrigued by a potential solution at their common intersection: using Limitations not unlike how Limits are used in MHR or Cortex Prime. The basic idea is to remove all the Limitations from the point calculation (aka Active Points = Real Cost) and use them as narrative tags instead, or as I put it in my post above, make them all Situational Limitations.

 

Theoretically, it should make power building easier and it should enhance narrative control over the story but if these two notions are not important for a group of players/GM, well then, it's useless.

 

Personally, I love the character creation mini-game and, as you point out, this idea may be a bit too far reaching for my taste but I'd certainly be willing to trying it out in play.  

 

[Christougher]

Extra Time on an attack power can be used to represent a charge-up type attack where the character can do nothing else while it starts.  A pocket monster CCG also has an inverse effect - after the attack, they can no longer do anything else.  Inflicting Stunned as a Side Effect works, but adds a lot of nasty issues - powers drop, doubles damage taken.   Same with Draining or Suppressing SPD, biting into SPD chart nastiness.

 

Is there an easy way to represent this, other than Limited Power: Lose Next Phase?  

[Christopher R Taylor]

Extra Time is a bit misleading as a concept in Hero.  It doesn't actually represent how long it takes you to start the power up, but how long of a lag before the power starts to work.

 

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While a character activates a power with Extra Time, he may take other actions.  However, the power only activates once the proper amount of time passes.

-HSR Book1, page 374

 

You get an extra ¼ limitation if you can do nothing except activate the power.  I call this "deliberate" for short hand.