Babylon 5

[Greywind]

‘Babylon 5’ Reboot in the Works at The CW

[death tribble]

Mixed feelings about this.

The good thing is that JMS is doing this.

But the original was so good.

[Scott Ruggels]

Thank you for the information. I was rabid about this show during the 90’s. It would be interesting to see what a sligh larger budget and 25 years of technological progress will give the shows look. At the time JMS was known for keeping the show on time and under budget. 
 

I also have mixed feelings about this, as most current year shows are saddled with personally unattractive agenda, which is why I have been watching the old show with my mother as it’s on HBO Max and she has a better TV than I do. She’s a Trekkie and it took her one season of it to get the characters straight. Other than the kind of rough FX, it still hold up due to the writing and the acting performances. 

[Tjack]

   “I live for the one, and I’ll die for the one”, but everything the CW has rebooted has sucked......hard.  I’m having trouble believing that jMS’s slow, well thought out, character driven, mature style of writing could last at that network.  
    Netflicks, HBO Max, AMC even FX and I’d be cheering, but none of the characters of the original series were even in that channels age demographic, let alone be the stars of a new show.  Do we really want to see twenty year old versions of Sinclair, Garabaldi and Ivanova?  How about G’Kar?  Anybody want to see “I was a teenage Narn?”

   I have the same cold feeling in the pit of my stomach as when I heard Seth Rogan was going to star in Green Hornet.
   

[Christopher R Taylor]

The last thing this world needs is a CW version of anything, let alone Babylon Five.

[Ninja-Bear]

I too have been rewatching the original B5!

[Pariah]

I'm willing to give it  chance, simply because JMS is involved. But I'm skeptical. 

[Sundog]

Holding my position. I've enjoyed some of the CW stuff. Straczynski is involved. But I rarely like remakes.

 

[Greywind]

If it gets picked up, Straczynski could get his wish and cast Boxleitner as Clarke.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

3 hours ago, Tjack said:

   I have the same cold feeling in the pit of my stomach as when I heard Seth Rogan was going to star in Green Hornet. 

Because THAT was a beloved classic?  The only interesting things about the original show was that it was called 'The Kato Show' in China, and that the writers would sometimes use the same jokes in both Batman and the Hornet.

 

[slikmar]

My first thought when hearing some of the original cast would be involved was - there are original cast left?

Also, I didnt know Claudia had a sister.

I like others am glad JMS is involved, I hope he has the power to push through his vision, whatever it is and I fear what will be done with it.

I have enjoyed some of the CW stuff (I like most of the superhero stuff, though I know others do not) though I havent watched any of the ones that would be straight teen drama (Riverdale, Nancy Drew etc).

Then I went and looked at PTEN to remind myself what was there and realized I liked all 4 series they did - B5, Pointman, Time TRax and Kung Fu: the legend continues. not saying they were great, but fun entertainment.

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, Nekkidcarpenter said:

Because THAT was a beloved classic?  The only interesting things about the original show was that it was called 'The Kato Show' in China, and that the writers would sometimes use the same jokes in both Batman and the Hornet.

 

     It was beloved.....BY ME. The idea that a hero had to pretend to be a villain was one that fascinated me watching the two episodes on the Batman re-runs when I was very young.  Which lead me to the old radio broadcasts (which led to a love of old radio in general) The Lone Ranger, and an appreciation for characters that never got the recognition I thought they deserved. Thru the very well done comics done in the ‘90’s that tied up all the versions.  Then to the press notice that Jet Li wanted to do a Green Hornet movie. Finally a way to share my love of a forgotten hero.

   Imagine my disappointment at the results. Even when the final casting was announced I tried to hope that much like Michael Keaton had done before, Rogan would step up to the challenge.  This is was what I got....a dope smoking slacker with daddy issues.  I hope for your sake all your treasured childhood heroes are treated better.

[Pattern Ghost]

6 hours ago, Greywind said:

at The CW

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[Ternaugh]

12 minutes ago, Tjack said:

     It was beloved.....BY ME. The idea that a hero had to pretend to be a villain was one that fascinated me watching the two episodes on the Batman re-runs when I was very young.  Which lead me to the old radio broadcasts (which led to a love of old radio in general) The Lone Ranger, and an appreciation for characters that never got the recognition I thought they deserved. Thru the very well done comics done in the ‘90’s that tied up all the versions.  Then to the press notice that Jet Li wanted to do a Green Hornet movie. Finally a way to share my love of a forgotten hero.

   Imagine my disappointment at the results. Even when the final casting was announced I tried to hope that much like Michael Keaton had done before, Rogan would step up to the challenge.  This is was what I got....a dope smoking slacker with daddy issues.  I hope for your sake all your treasured childhood heroes are treated better.

 

I usually have a high tolerance for bad movies, but I found Seth Rogen's Green Hornet to be eminently unwatchable. I turned it off somewhere around 20 to 30 minutes in.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Green Hornet was ghastly as a film, but a terrific concept.

[Greywind]

From JMS on Facebook:

 

Quote

To answer all the questions, yes, it’s true, Babylon 5 is now in active development as a series for the CW. We have some serious fans over at the network, and they’re eager to see this show happen. I’m hip deep into writing the pilot now, and will be running the series upon pickup. The network understands the uniqueness of Babylon 5 and is giving me a great deal of latitude with the storytelling.

 

As noted in the announcement, this is a reboot from the ground up rather than a continuation, for several reasons. Heraclitus wrote, “You cannot step in the same river twice, for the river has changed, and you have changed.” In the years since B5, I’ve done a ton of other TV shows and movies, adding an equal number of tools to my toolbox, all of which I can bring to bear on the question: if I were creating Babylon 5 today, for the first time, knowing what I now know as a writer, what would it look like? How would it use all the storytelling tools and technological resources available in 2021 that were not on hand then? How can it be used to reflect the world in which we live, and the questions we are asking and confronting every day? Fans regularly point out how prescient the show was and is of our current world; it would be fun to take a shot at looking further down the road.

 

So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something both fresh and familiar.

 

To those who have asked why we’re not just doing a continuation…for a network series like this, it can’t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim. How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G’Kar? How do you tell Sheridan’s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack?

 

The original Babylon 5 was ridiculously innovative: the first to use CGI to create ships and characters, and among the very first to shoot widescreen with a vigorous 5.1 mix. Most of all, for the first time, Babylon 5 introduced viewers accustomed to episodic television to the concept of a five-year arc with a pre-planned beginning, middle and end…creating a brand new paradigm for television storytelling that has subsequently become the norm. That tradition for innovation will continue in this new iteration, and I hope to create additional new forms of storytelling that will further push the television medium to the edge of what’s possible.

 

Let me conclude by just saying how supportive and enthusiastic everyone at the CW has been and is being with this project. They understand the unique position Babylon 5 occupies both in television and with its legions of fans, and are doing everything they can to ensure the maximum in creative freedom, a new story that will bring in new viewers while honoring all that has come before.

 

[Tjack]

11 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Green Hornet was ghastly as a film, but a terrific concept.

  The original idea is of a street level hero who takes on the persona of a criminal who blackmails other criminal for “A Piece of the Action” (The name of the first of the Batman crossovers) or he’ll make sure they get caught by the police. And when the bad guys resist it’s a perfect excuse to get them caught while keeping up the pretense.  
  This concept is as far as I can tell completely original and has never been done since.

[Pariah]

Today on social media, Claudia Christian said she had been asked how much she knows about the upcoming Babylon 5 reboot. This was her response:

 

"Only Joe knows that for now, so you should go bug him about it.  He won't tell you, but the results should be amusing."

[Jhamin]

... I'm skeptical but hopeful.

 

JMS is famous for walking rather than compromising his creative vision for things and B5 was his baby.  If he actually has creative control I'm very curious about what can be.  The fact that this will be a re-imagining rather than a reboot or a retread is encouraging.  It came out after the fact that his original ideas had to bend and shift with the reality of things out of his control (like Michael O'Hare's mental health issues).  I wonder if this will be his chance to tell the original story he envisioned?  Or some other story he dismissed as unfilmable in the 90s? 

 

We never did see where Crusade was going to go.

[slikmar]

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

     It was beloved.....BY ME. The idea that a hero had to pretend to be a villain was one that fascinated me watching the two episodes on the Batman re-runs when I was very young.  Which lead me to the old radio broadcasts (which led to a love of old radio in general) The Lone Ranger, and an appreciation for characters that never got the recognition I thought they deserved. Thru the very well done comics done in the ‘90’s that tied up all the versions.  Then to the press notice that Jet Li wanted to do a Green Hornet movie. Finally a way to share my love of a forgotten hero.

   Imagine my disappointment at the results. Even when the final casting was announced I tried to hope that much like Michael Keaton had done before, Rogan would step up to the challenge.  This is was what I got....a dope smoking slacker with daddy issues.  I hope for your sake all your treasured childhood heroes are treated better.

Everything you just wrote, I echo. Also add The Shadow (and I was glad to see the movie the did of it was actually decent). Loved to listen to those old radio shows, so much went and got the whole Shadow series on tape/CD. If you really want to get a kick, go listen to the Saint with Vincent Price. Gave me a great deal of respect for his humorous timing.

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

 

I usually have a high tolerance for bad movies, but I found Seth Rogen's Green Hornet to be eminently unwatchable. I turned it off somewhere around 20 to 30 minutes in.

To head off a misunderstanding, though not sure it has happened, I believe the 2 of you are on the same page (as am I) when saying that movie was a disappointment on so many levels. Like TJack, when I heard about Rogan doing it, I hoped for at least some semblance of taking the role seriously. I wouldn't have even minded if he played the dope smoking slacker as a cover for the Green Hornet.

[Spence]

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

Then to the press notice that Jet Li wanted to do a Green Hornet movie. Finally a way to share my love of a forgotten hero.

 

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

Seth Rogen's Green Hornet to be eminently unwatchable

 

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Green Hornet was ghastly as a film, but a terrific concept.

 

It was an abomination and a dark precursor to the utter depravity of modern Follywood where they have no concept of a property but push out ooze like a popped pimple. 

11 minutes ago, Jhamin said:

JMS is famous for walking rather than compromising his creative vision for things and B5 was his baby. 

 

The only thing that gives me hope.

From what I read it isn't a reboot, but a telling of Shadow War.  The B5 story wasn't about the Shadow War, but it was influenced by it.  I read a lot of the B5 novels, my favorite being the Passing of the Technomages trilogy, and what we saw in the B5 series barely scratched the surface of what was happening. 

 

B5 centered on the station and events on Earth, this could be the opportunity to see the rest of the story.

But I fear the influence of Hollywood agendas and CW angst.

[Pariah]

JMS's full Twitter statement. - "To answer all the questions, yes, it’s true, Babylon 5 is in active development as a series for the CW. We have some serious fans over at the network, and they’re eager to see this show happen. I’m hip deep into writing the pilot now, and will be running the series upon pickup. The network understands the uniqueness of Babylon 5 and is giving me a great deal of latitude with the storytelling. 

 

As noted in the announcement, this is a reboot from the ground up rather than a continuation, for several reasons. Heraclitus wrote - “You cannot step in the same river twice, for the river has changed, and you have changed.” In the years since B5, I’ve done a ton of other TV shows and movies, adding an equal number of tools to my toolbox, all of which I can bring to bear on one singular question: if I were creating Babylon 5 today, for the first time, knowing what I now know as a writer, what would it look like? How would it use all the storytelling tools and technological resources available in 2021 that were not on hand then? How can it be used to reflect the world in which we live, and the questions we are asking and confronting every day? Fans regularly point out how prescient the show was and is of our current world; it would be fun to take a shot at looking further down the road.

 

So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something fresh yet familiar.  

 

To those asking why not just do a continuation, for a network series like this, it can’t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim. How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G’Kar? How do you tell Sheridan’s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack?

 

The original Babylon 5 was ridiculously innovative: the first to use CGI to create ships and characters, and among the very first to shoot widescreen with a vigorous 5.1 mix. Most of all, for the first time, Babylon 5 introduced viewers accustomed to episodic television to the concept of a five-year arc with a pre-planned beginning, middle and end…creating a brand new paradigm for television storytelling that has subsequently become the norm. That tradition for innovation will continue in this new iteration, and I hope to create additional new forms of storytelling that will further push the television medium to the edge of what’s possible.

 

Let me conclude by just saying how supportive and enthusiastic everyone at the CW has been and is being with this project. They understand the unique position Babylon 5 occupies both in television and with its legions of fans, and are doing everything they can to ensure the maximum in creative freedom, a new story that will bring in new viewers while honoring all that has come before.

 

Onward!"

[wcw43921]

Time to play one of my favorite mind games--recasting movies or TV series with Star Trek actors.

 

Jeffery Sinclair/John Sheridan-----------------------------Johnathan Frakes

Delenn-----------------------------------------------------Either Marina Sirtis or Michelle Yeoh

Garibaldi---------------------------------------------------Avery Brooks

Ivanova----------------------------------------------------Zoe Saldana or Sonequa Martin-Green

Londo-----------------------------------------------------William Shatner

G'Kar------------------------------------------------------Michael Dorn 

Dr. Franklin------------------------------------------------Anthony Montgomery

Lyta Alexander/Talia Winters------------------------------Alice Eve

Bester-----------------------------------------------------Zachary Quinto (I would have loved--loved to have had Anton Yelchin for this role, but that's not possible.  Curse You 2016!)

Morden----------------------------------------------------Tim Russ

Vir---------------------------------------------------------Garrett Wang

Marcus Cole-----------------------------------------------John Cho

Na'Toth----------------------------------------------------Suzie Plakson

Zathras----------------------------------------------------Simon Pegg

Emperor Cartagia------------------------------------------Patrick Stewart or George Takei

 

On a more serious note--I would like to see more of the civil side of life on the Babylon station.  Babylon 5 is supposed to have a quarter of a million people living there.  A quarter of a million.  That's a lot.  By contrast, the city of Peoria, Illinois has less than half that many people--yet Peoria has three major hospitals, several major industries (Caterpillar, Archer Daniels Midland, and Komatsu, to name but a few) minor league baseball and hockey teams, affiliate stations for all the major networks--none of which is apparent on Babylon 5.  The only shops and stores I've seen on the show were in the Zocalo, which looked to me like a big food court.  But aren't there any major stores or industries on Babylon 5?  Not even a Buy 'N Large?

 

Then there's the bit back when the original series was being produced, where Straczynski said there would be "no children or cute robots" on Babylon 5.  Excuse me?  A quarter of a million people, and no one brought their families?  How do you build a community without the next generation to whom to pass it along?  Are there no schools or playgrounds?  Peoria has Bradley University, with over 5000 students.  Babylon 5 has--what?  Remote learning?  Correspondence courses?  Hopefully some of this will get addressed in the new series.

 

(There.  With any luck, this thread should get back on track.)

[unclevlad]

Babylon 5 was military sci fi, tho, so showing "normal life on the station" probably shouldn't be a big part.  Plus, there were already a TON of storylines going on.  And look at the social/military leels involved...ambassadors, their direct administrative assistants, station commander and his top people.  Feels like trying to draw in the civilian life of the station would only dilute things.

 

I do like JMS' reasoning for reworking the story.  The series ended almost 25 years ago.  Several of the original cast have died since;  even those who are still around, couldn't step back into the roles they had, as they had them.  And recasting is often where I think the reboots crash and burn.  A new Londo would be judged against Jurasik's semi-manic portrayal;  Katsulas' G'Kar was awesome.

 

I'll prefer to be optimistic for now.  Sounds like it's gonna be a while before it's out, in any case.

[dmjalund]

59 minutes ago, wcw43921 said:

Bester-----------------------------------------------------Zachary Quinto

elsewhere I suggested Nathan Fillion