Mixed Martial Arts Styles

[Tywyll]

5th Edition

 

Is it okay to mix Martial arts types in the same style? Specifically, could you have a mostly physical style with a few ranged maneuvers? Could you have a Mental style with a few physical maneuvers? I don't see any examples, but I don't see any direct prohibitions.

 

I realise this can be GM call territory, I am just curious if there is specific restrictions I missed.

[Greywind]

To be honest, any martial art that isn't named could be a mixed style.

[Tjack]

   What exactly is a ranged martial art?  Martial Arts as described in the book would more or less be “I ball up my hand and smack you with it.”  Or the ever popular “Boot to the head!”  What is the real world version of this attack?
   If you’re talking about some kind of “I take my Chi Power and send a ball of energy at my opponent.” Then that’s an Energy Blast of some kind and while it may have a special effect of some type of Kung-Fu, it’s not a Martial Arts maneuver and has to be written up separately.  But it’s certainly allowed IF you can pay for it.
  I once GM’ed for a madman who played Chuin: Master of Sinanju, without ever buying a Martial maneuver. Punches & Kicks were 0 range Killing Attacks. Dodge was Desolid with appropriate limitations, and so forth. It was an intellectual exercise for him to see if he could do it.

[Tywyll]

36 minutes ago, Tjack said:

   What exactly is a ranged martial art?  Martial Arts as described in the book would more or less be “I ball up my hand and smack you with it.”  Or the ever popular “Boot to the head!”  What is the real world version of this attack?

There are several ranged styles in Ultimate MA. MA is just a way of showing a character is better skilled at some kind of combat, be it guns, bows, or enerjutsu for blasters.

[Tjack]

17 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

There are several ranged styles in Ultimate MA. MA is just a way of showing a character is better skilled at some kind of combat, be it guns, bows, or enerjutsu for blasters.

    Gun-Fu is kind of a different animal from the more standard MA’s.  While Hawkeye may occasionally whack somebody with his bow or Spike Spegal with his gun their Martial Arts are generally separate from their archery or shooting.
The most important question about all this is “What do you want?” (I sound like Mr. Morden) Is this just a technical question about the rules or is this more about really wanting to do a particular character and trying to figure out the best way to bring your vision to life. 

[Ninja-Bear]

4 hours ago, Tywyll said:

5th Edition

 

Is it okay to mix Martial arts types in the same style? Specifically, could you have a mostly physical style with a few ranged maneuvers? Could you have a Mental style with a few physical maneuvers? I don't see any examples, but I don't see any direct prohibitions.

 

I realise this can be GM call territory, I am just curious if there is specific restrictions I missed.

Short answer is no, there isn’t any restrictions that I’m aware of. So if it makes sense to you-go ahead. I actually bought a Ranger Maneuver for my one King Fu villain. He had generic Kung fu with the metal hoops and he a Ranged Attack because he could throw them. It was based off a villain in Deadly Rendezvous.

[Tywyll]

1 hour ago, Tjack said:

    Gun-Fu is kind of a different animal from the more standard MA’s.  While Hawkeye may occasionally whack somebody with his bow or Spike Spegal with his gun their Martial Arts are generally separate from their archery or shooting.
The most important question about all this is “What do you want?” (I sound like Mr. Morden) Is this just a technical question about the rules or is this more about really wanting to do a particular character and trying to figure out the best way to bring your vision to life. 

The idea is for an order of psychic assassins, kind of like psylocke, so mixing physical and mental MA makes sense, in my head anyway.

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

   What exactly is a ranged martial art?  Martial Arts as described in the book would more or less be “I ball up my hand and smack you with it.”  Or the ever popular “Boot to the head!”  What is the real world version of this attack?
  

Not necessarily true with the Hero System. Have you not seen Red in Tooth and Claw ? Whereas it’s a list of maneuvers that animals can use to represent more efficient attacks.

[Tjack]

2 hours ago, Tywyll said:

The idea is for an order of psychic assassins, kind of like psylocke, so mixing physical and mental MA makes sense, in my head anyway.

    Well, nobody ever said that you couldn’t special effect any power in the book as whatever you want. You just can’t do things like use a skill level bought for M.A. with them. Like the Chuin example I mentioned.

[Derek Hiemforth]

The sidebar on page 100 of The Ultimate Martial Artist (5E) specifically addresses this question.

[Duke Bushido]

I know this is the single most unpopular opinion on this board, outgunning even Linked and Shapeshift, but I think it's helpful to keep it in mind:

 

Martial Arts in the HERO System is a hyper-tweaking of Skill Levels.

 

You can have Skill Levels in Ranged Attacks and in HtH Attacks; you can have a Martial Art that includes both.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

Martial Arts in the HERO System is a hyper-tweaking of Skill Levels.

 

 

No, you're right, that's exactly what it is.  Its specifying them for martial arts, but really that's all it does for almost all maneuvers.

[Duke Bushido]

4 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

No, you're right, that's exactly what it is.  Its specifying them for martial arts, but really that's all it does for almost all maneuvers.

 

Thanks, Christopher, but as every time in the past I have made a Skill Levels =  Martial Arts comment, the reaction is usually pretty ugly, so I'm just going to keep my head covered for a while, okay?   

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

21 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Thanks, Christopher, but as every time in the past I have made a Skill Levels =  Martial Arts comment, the reaction is usually pretty ugly, so I'm just going to keep my head covered for a while, okay?   

 

 

Martial Dodging eh? 😜

[Christopher R Taylor]

I mean other than some maneuvers, like the movement ones, its all pretty much just OCV, DCV (levels) and using levels for extra damage.  If you reduced all the Martial Arts buids to 0 points using the system in the Ninja Hero book, you could just buy skill levels and simulate anything.

[Duke Bushido]

10 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I mean other than some maneuvers, like the movement ones, its all pretty much just OCV, DCV (levels) and using levels for extra damage.  If you reduced all the Martial Arts buids to 0 points using the system in the Ninja Hero book, you could just buy skill levels and simulate anything.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I have many, _many_ martial,artists.  _None_ of them use anything remotely like HSMA.  They buy some skill levels, maybe a couple of DCs, and yell "Hi-ya!" When they attack.

 

End result is the same, and way more utility and opportunities: "won't it freak him out a bit when I attack him with ten,different styles!"

 

Did you buy martial strike ten times?

 

No; I bought skill levels and a couple of DCs.

Etc

Etc.

 

[Tjack]

9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Martial Dodging eh? 😜

 

   I knew a player who designed a maneuver she called “Martial Run Like Hell”  Half Move, DODGE, Half Move, DODGE!”

   Good night Nightshade, wherever you are.

[Ninja-Bear]

8 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

Agreed.

 

I have many, _many_ martial,artists.  _None_ of them use anything remotely like HSMA.  They buy some skill levels, maybe a couple of DCs, and yell "Hi-ya!" When they attack.

 

End result is the same, and way more utility and opportunities: "won't it freak him out a bit when I attack him with ten,different styles!"

 

Did you buy martial strike ten times?

 

No; I bought skill levels and a couple of DCs.

Etc

Etc.

 

Fwiw, that’s great. It’s when people suggest getting rid of the martial maneuvers altogether from the system itself is where I have a problem with. 

[Nekkidcarpenter]

The first 10 points spent in Martial Maneuvers are exceptional value, the next ten cost about right, and any points after that start subtracting from the original value such that by the time you approach 40 points in maneuvers and DC's you would have been far better off spending them on Powers and Skills.

 

[unclevlad]

On 12/9/2021 at 2:20 PM, Nekkidcarpenter said:

The first 10 points spent in Martial Maneuvers are exceptional value, the next ten cost about right, and any points after that start subtracting from the original value such that by the time you approach 40 points in maneuvers and DC's you would have been far better off spending them on Powers and Skills.

 

 

Sure because by that point, redundancy is kicking in very badly...unless you're buying both HTH and ranged.  You KNOW that's gonna be expensive.  BTW, I disagree with DCs in that total.  DCs are cheap.  You need 2 CSLs to get a DC, and that's at least 6 points.  Sure, you can in principle use em for OCV or DCV but that has diminishing returns.  Disclaimer:  I've long had an issue that lifting STR is exponential, while the damage is linear.  So, my feeling is that for every 5 points of STR over 20, you've implicitly got justification for +1 DC, or +1d6 HTH if you're not going martial.  

 

Also note that HTH DCs apply to aspects that skill levels don't, such as escapes and disarms.  Or, most likely, you're getting into even more expensive skill levels.

 

So a package of, let's say:

5 DCs 

Fast Strike

Offensive Strike

Martial Disarm

Martial Escape

Martial Dodge

 

covers MOST bases for standard punching-type HTH guy, and there's not that much overlap.