World Cup 2022

[slikmar]

This is one of those world cups gives hope for the future of this USA team. they are the 3rd youngest, so if can stay together and healthy and hopefully pick up a center forward who is a finisher, preferably taller then 5'10". Netherlands strategy was obvious from the beginning, pack 10 guys at top of box to about 25 feet further out and don't chase the USA players around knowing that your 6'+ defenders mean they can't lift ball from wings into the box for potential header goals. watching looks like USA is dominating with the ball control, but by half, down 2-0, with the Dutch strategy working perfectly.

Somehow, USA needs to convince in highschool some of these potential 6'4" pointguards who won't make the NBA to come play soccer.

My brother and I say similar thing regarding rugby. Team usa coach needs to travel to 2nd level colleges and convince some of the linebackers/runningbacks/defensive backs that they won't make nfl, so come try rugby and play on international level.

[unclevlad]

Gonna be a tough sell.

MLS minimum salary:  $65K

NBA rookie minimum:  $950K

Another issue:  of the top 20 highest paid players in MLS, there's 1 from the US

(https://boardroom.tv/highest-mls-salaries-2022/)

 

College soccer?  209 Div I schools, 9.9 scholarships max per school

College basketball?  353 Div I schools, 13 scholarships max per school

 

I'd also argue that, if you want to develop an international-level player, high school is probably too late.  There are *occasional* basketball players that start late, but I believe they're typically centers...of the "7 foot WHAT?" variety.

 

A big factor in football and basketball is the camps, often but not always run by the shoe brands.  They're pay to attend, mind, but they go down to youth levels...middle school, I believe.  Nike's camps page says they ran 650 camps.  No mention of how many kids attended, but they say over 7000 were on the waitlists and didn't get in.  (In case you wonder where all those 3-star, 4-star, 5-star ratings that you hear about during recruiting are determined?  These camps.)  It's not just Nike, or just the shoe brands;  they're just, I believe, the biggest.  It's a massive industry.  It does look like there's soccer camps too, but they're nowhere near the same level, at least based on a quick check.

 

But, I suspect a big factor is, it's simply not viewed as a US sport.  The top players in the top US league are foreign.  There's no view that the US develops top players, which discourages players who can see any other option, which means...you tend to get players not quite as good.  There's SOME change here;  I believe there's better US representation in UEFA overall in the last few years, but...that doesn't help very much.

 

It's plausible that the increased exposure...IIRC, NBC does Premier League, and I think Fox does Bundesliga, which are both fairly new developments, could help raise awareness and interest.  We shall have to see if that lasts...or whether this was based on it being a World Cup year.

[slikmar]

And that is the same argument my brother had, which I agree with, sadly. Other problem with soccer becoming bigger in US, and I believe someone else mentioned it, is tv revenue. It will almost never make as much in revenue in the US (world cup notwithstanding, though I would argue without the USA at least being semi competitive, i bet would still hold). Broadcasters do not enjoy a sport that will go 45+ minutes without a break to show commercials, which is where they make their money.

And I fully agree need to get them playing as kids, but again, the ones who are athletes that could have a sniff of those college scholarships aren't playing soccer.

[Starlord]

If NCAA Football was NCAA Soccer...wow...we'd be pretty good.

 

...but we're not...oh well.

[Cancer]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

It's plausible that the increased exposure...IIRC, NBC does Premier League, and I think Fox does Bundesliga, which are both fairly new developments, could help raise awareness and interest.  We shall have to see if that lasts...or whether this was based on it being a World Cup year.

 

I gently remind you that the US Spanish-language networks carry a fair amount of soccer, admittedly with Spanish language commentary.  (Commentary almost always rubs me the wrong way so I almost always watch sports muted anyway, and for these Spanish-language stations I use closed captioning for minimal content/very slow language lessons/comedic sideshow).  Though I haven't because of work and wall-time reasons (2:00AM my time kickoffs? ... ehh, no), I get Telemundo via rabbit ears here and now they are showing every match (during the group stage with two matches going in the same timeslot, only half were on) with a replay of the best match of the day later in the afternoon, and there's another Spanish-language network here I also get via rabbit ears and when that league is going, it gives me two Liga MX matches a weekend.  Not that I watch anything approaching all of that, but it's available if I've got nothing else going that weekend.

 

That said, I doubt the US will ever have a league as good as the Premier League or Bundesliga or Serie A or La Liga.  Big foreign money is established there.  The best US players go there; they must do that in order to get top-flight experience.  OTOH, the same is true for players of nearly all countries that aren't England or Germany or Italy. 

 

I admit to a bias because I played the sport (which I also did with baseball, but not for gridiron football or basketball), but I do see soccer growing slowly here in the US, as parents choose to steer their kids away from gridiron football because of the brain damage issue; and while the NFL has been stonewalling awareness of that the way Big Tobacco stonewalled the lung cancer issue for half a century,  it is a trend, though one which varies from place to place across the country.

[unclevlad]

I'm also not sure that soccer fits the American mindset.  Too many games spend too much time with, apparently, nothing happening.  For example, in the game today, there were 13 shots that resulted in a save or goal.  13...for both teams combined.  That doesn't count those that miss the net, which are often dramatic, but still, for 90+ minutes, that's glacial.  Watching soccer is like watching an old no-shot-clock basketball game, or more recently, many University of Virginia games where they played the packed-line defense, and the final score was likely in the 50s.  What's the #1 issue WRT baseball?  Lack of action/pace of play.  If baseball, as played these days, had to build itself from scratch, I think it'd have a really hard time.  

 

I did forget the Spanish-language broadcasts, but what's their overall level of market penetration?  I'll also buy the point that the South American and European players aren't playing in their home base...but the sport still has market saturation via the local clubs, to maintain interest.

 

There are fewer kids playing HS football.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267955/participation-in-us-high-school-football/

 

That's about 11% over the period.  Questions arise, tho:

a)  how many of the kids who decided not to play, were never going to be good players?  Spotty time on the field at most.  Probably not even getting a letter...criteria vary, but one school district, for football, says 40% of plays from scrimmage.  That's not spotty.

b)  how many moved to other sports?

 

And actually...there's a surprising number of boys playing soccer.  

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267963/participation-in-us-high-school-soccer/

 

This is boys and girls combined.  Boys apparently make up a bit more than half, so we're talking about half the number of boys playing soccer, as football.  This begs the question:  how many treat it like, say, college intramurals or club sports?  It's great, it's fun, but it's not a path leading to a potential future.  HS football, obviously...it is a path.  Same with basketball.  Soccer could absolutely be a path to a scholarship, and hey, even a half-time scholarship would be huge.  The other point:  football, basketball, and baseball have a deep, rich tradition, and the strong competitive nature.  It's plausible to assume that coaching is at a higher level.  Where's soccer coaching?

 

That's not to say there aren't serious HS soccer programs...but I question, how many of them are there across the country?

[death tribble]

France 3 Poland 1.

No real surprise there. The current holders are good

 

No mention of Brazil losing 1-0 to Cameroon or Switzerland beating Serbia 3-2 ?

[Starlord]

Brazil didn't start a couple guys and subbed 4 at half to keep the other starters fresh..they weren't too concerned with a loss.

[death tribble]

England 3 Senegal 0

And now France

[Cancer]

Yeah, neither result is too surprising.

[death tribble]

Japan vs Croatia could produce an upset. Croatia are the current losing finalists so if they go out...

Brazil should beat South Korea.

Spain should beat Morocco

but Switzerland fought through their last match so Portugal could have problems.

[Cancer]

I'll be at work tomorrow so I won't be able to watch matches, just follow scores. 

[Cancer]

Japan and Croatia end their match at 1-1, but Croatia win the penalty shootout 3-1 and advance.

 

Brazil-Korea starts in about an hour.

[death tribble]

Brazil won 4-1

 

The team to beat

[Cancer]

Yeah, they scored four in the first half and coasted.

[death tribble]

Morocco and Spain fight to a draw. And then Morocco get through on penalties.

England are not the only ones who are bad at penalties at the World Cup.

This is an upset.

[Cancer]

* Cancer cheers upsets wildly *

[death tribble]

Portugal are beating Switzerland 5-1 with about 80 minutes gone.

 

Portugal win 6-1

[Pariah]

It's clear that Portugal are cruising along in top gear, while Switzerland never got out of neutral.

 

What? 

[Cancer]

So ... a couple idle days.

 

On Dec 9, Croatia - Brazil, and Netherlands - Argentina.

 

On Dec 10, Morocco - Portugal, and England - France.

[death tribble]

The big tie is England and France. An old rivalry and the only battle between ex-winners.

 

Brazil should beat Croatia, Portugal should beat Morocco but Argentina vs Netherland could be the other big game. Ex finalists vs two time ex winners

[Pariah]

You say Portugal should beat Morocco ... but didn't everyone say the same about Spain?

 

And England and France are rivals? When did this start?

[Cancer]

When the Last Glacial Period ended, about 10,000 years ago.  Surprises me; I figured it went back to the late Permian.

[Pariah]

I found this diverting:

 

‘Football x Football’ — World Cup Nations Depicted as Football Helmets

 

[death tribble]

13 hours ago, Pariah said:

And England and France are rivals? When did this start?

You could say 1966. When England won the World Cup. Yeah Italy and Germany had already won it but for England to beat France to it......