assault Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 OK, player characters in my game are either members of the gentry, or members of the social class below them. At the moment I am calling the lower class the Yeomanry. But what do you call the members of that class that aren't male? Think Jeeves and Wooster, or less dumb versions of this. What do you call a female"yeoman"? Or non-male, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdw3773 Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 You have some possibilities: 1) You can use the informal U.S. Navy term used during World War I and World War II, which was "Yeomanettes" even though their official title was still "Yeoman" (YN). 2) You can make up your own that are gender neutral such as, "Yeopen" that loosely combines "Yeoman" and "Peon" or "Yeossal" that combines "Yeoman" and "Vassal." 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 Yeo means young, thus Yeoman originally literally meant "young man" before it started taking on other meanings. If I was going with the idea of gentry as landed estate holders who lack peerage, and wanted a some-status social class below that but above serfs / peasants / no-status people, I would go with the classic term commoners, which is also a gender neutral term. For a step in between gentry and commoners, people who have some land but are poorly integrated into the dominant feudal hierarchy I would go with the term freeholder. I would expect to find such freeholders at the fringes of the nation, in land that was acquired, annexed, or engulfed by an expanding feudal society but not outright conquered and thus was never fully integrated into the vassal / peerage model of the original nation and conquered lands where land was taken and reallocated. DentArthurDent and tkdguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 Sweden -- and Norway too, I think -- never had a developed serfdom institution. A farmer either owned their land and paid tax -- as a yeoman would -- or rented from a landlord. In Swedish, the first category was mostly called skattebonde, that is "taxed farmer". The second category had different names through the ages, mostly depending on the terms of the lease, like räntebonde ("renting farmer") and torpare ("crofter", renting small farms for short leases). assault and DentArthurDent 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 An alternative Navy rank for "Yeoman" is "Seaman". You're welcome. "Yeoman" also is a subcategory of "Petty Officer", E-4 to E-6, equivalent to Corporal/Sergeant/Staff Sergeant in landlubber services. If you go old school, there are "Mate" ranks approximately on the same level as "Yeoman", e.g. Gunner's Mate, Boatswain's Mate, Sailmaker's Mate. But in general U.S. services are not forward thinking in this regard; Airman, Seaman, Yeoman, Midshipman, etc. are all still in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 ask Janice Rand drunkonduty and Beast 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 Retinue? Retainer? Vavasour? Are you defining yeoman as one or more of the following: A freeholder? Freeholder who holds land in exchange for military service to a knight or other noble? Middle class servants to a noble? Common sailors? For the first I'd go with farmer. Second, retainer. Third, retinue. Forth... I'm coming up blank here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 44 minutes ago, SCUBA Hero said: Are you defining yeoman as one or more of the following: A freeholder? Freeholder who holds land in exchange for military service to a knight or other noble? Middle class servants to a noble? Common sailors? Pretty much the first three, although the service in the second case is not necessarily military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 For both free farmers, rent farmers, and serfs, part or all of the rent or tax would be in the form of corvée -- labor for the landlord or the crown. It might entail upkeep of roads and bridges, work on a magnate's estate at harvest time, or militia duty. That last part was modernized under the indelningsverket ("the allotment system") under the Swedish empire -- in lieu of tax, a village was to equip an infantryman or a cavalryman, and give him a small farm to keep him and his family. assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 22 minutes ago, assault said: Pretty much the first three, although the service in the second case is not necessarily military. In that case I'd go with retainer. assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 Out of all the ones suggested, I like crofter the best. It just sounds fun to say. Tax Collector: “Crofter Jones, I’m here for the taxes you owe, every last farthing of it.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 But a crofter is not a yeoman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 Just had a thought for common sailors - for new/unskilled Deck Hand, regular Ordinary Sailor, and experienced/petty officer/yeoman Able Bodied Sailer. I know that's not what you're looking for, but I thought I'd share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted July 16, 2022 Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 In Old English, the word 'mann' just meant human being or person. A male was 'wer' (from which we get werewolf) and a female was wif (from which we get wife). So you could just call them Yeomann, with the extra letter n to designate it as gender neutral. tkdguy, Opal, Old Man and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal Posted July 18, 2022 Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 You could just be totally anachronistic and sanitize it like it was still the early days of political correctness... Yeoperson Yeopersun (to avoid "son," as also masculine, I kid you not) If you have multiple races in the setting Yeobeing Or like D&D did with Lizardmen Yeofolk Or not-draconian-we-swear Yeoborn You could work from Freeman the same ways as above, or to Dune-ish Fremen, which still contains "men", so hey, Fremyn could be fun. I've read novels were the used Freeholder and shortened it to "Holder" that seemed to flow pretty naturally. You could make up a word with no etymology, at all, too. Wir'rin Voldhn Quaeoi Nye DShomshak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 7:03 PM, Old Man said: An alternative Navy rank for "Yeoman" is "Seaman". You're welcome. "Yeoman" also is a subcategory of "Petty Officer", E-4 to E-6, equivalent to Corporal/Sergeant/Staff Sergeant in landlubber services. If you go old school, there are "Mate" ranks approximately on the same level as "Yeoman", e.g. Gunner's Mate, Boatswain's Mate, Sailmaker's Mate. But in general U.S. services are not forward thinking in this regard; Airman, Seaman, Yeoman, Midshipman, etc. are all still in use. Yeoman is a rating (or job specialty), not a rank, though in the Navy your rating is frequently part of how your rank is shown - at least while I was still in. FWIW, my father in law was a yeoman (YN). I was an electronics technician (ET). When I got out as a 3rd class petty officer (E4), my rank was officially Electronics Technician 3rd Class or ET3 - though if I were being addressed by rank informally I would just be called petty officer. Old Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 12:18 AM, assault said: OK, player characters in my game are either members of the gentry, or members of the social class below them. At the moment I am calling the lower class the Yeomanry. But what do you call the members of that class that aren't male? Think Jeeves and Wooster, or less dumb versions of this. What do you call a female"yeoman"? Or non-male, whatever. by their surname as I portray 1 of the Yeoman of the guard I am addressed as Yeoman Mitchell( or Yeoman Beast) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 You could also go the roman route. Romans had 3 basic classes the nobles, citizens and slaves. Anyone outside the system was a barbarian. In medieval times the citizens became yeoman, and slaves became the serfs. Universal citizenship is actually a fairly modern concept. Originally in America you had to own property to be considered a citizen. I think it was around the time of Andrew Jackson that the idea of “universal” suffrage came into being. Even then it was still limited. In reality it has only been in the last hundred years that anything even close to universal citizenship even appeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Browsing through the dictionary, "Franklin" appears to be another English term for a free but not noble person. The dictionary definition sounds like it could be equal to either yeoman or gentry. Since I am not going to go haring off on historical research, I suppose you could declare it equal to yeoman. "Freeholder" still sounds best to me, though. My dictionary actually lists that as a synonym or definition of "yeoman." Dean Shomshak assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Voting for "freeholder" as well assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 "Freeholder" is a perfectly cromulent word. assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 You could just assume what people did at the time, where "man" simply means "human being". I mean if you're going to set it at a time period with the language and words of the time its an option. LoneWolf, Ndreare and Scott Ruggels 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Yeowoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Yeofolk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Well, I’ve seen the word womyn used in places on the internet, so maybe yeomyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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