Designing a Drone

[sturmrider]

I have a player that would like to design a drone for his character to use. I am considering making a Variable Power Pool called Drone for this I am just curious what others think would be the best solution. I know he wants a spatial awareness part of it being fed to his helmet I am thinking fine, but he has to process it as a person just as our drone operators do. Any suggestions for this would be appreciated also if there are any prefab modules out there that have drones great. I have the equipment and gadgeteer prefabs and didn't see it in there.

 

Thank you all for your feedback.

[Simon]

Moving this, since it is not about HD.

[sturmrider]

Hi Simon,

 

Sorry for the mix up, I was designing it in Hero Designer, but it doesn't have to be there. If you know of any prefabs that have a drone in it that would be great I couldn't find any.

 

Regards,

 

Larry

[Jhamin]

As with all things HERO, this comes down to special effects.  What are they hoping this drone will do for them?  There is a world of difference between a treaded bomb disposal drone, a flying camera drone, and a US Navy drone with anti-tank weapons that can stay in the stratosphere for days.  So we need to figure out what you want.

 

Personally, I think way too many people reach for Variable Power Pools way too quickly.  They have their place but I've found that 9/10 times people actually end up using 4-5 powers frequently and weird one-offs and you are better off building a power conventionally and then making them make inventor, power skill, or similar rolls to pull off the weird one time things they do with their powers rather than opening the can of worms that is VPP.

 

One way of handling the Drone is to build it as a follower or (depending on how much control you have) a duplicate.  A follower gets you another character but you have to deal with lots of issues with it being it's own thing that may want to help your character but has to be controlled separately.  A duplicate makes it part of your character so you end up having pretty much total access to it.  The down side is that because it is a follower or a duplicate a strict reading of the rules means that if it's destroyed you don't automatically get a new one.
Going this route, you stat up the Drone like a character.  Give it skills, powers, abilities, stats, etc.  It can do what it can do. 

 

If you want them to be semi-disposable, you want to buy them as a special effect for a power.  Likely as a foci.  You have lots of options depending on what you want

• Buy Clairsentience defined as the drone flying around and beaming camera footage back to an eye piece.  
• But attacks with the "indirect" advantage to simulate weapons on the drone.  You make the attack rolls yourself & just say the drone is doing it
• Buy Mind Control to reflect the Drone flying down and rewiring technological attackers
• Buy Aid to reflect the Drone flying over and injecting combat stim drugs into your allies

... and so on.
(I may be thinking of the Drones the Specialists troops have in the X-Com 2 video game for some of these examples)

[sturmrider]

Thanks JHamin, that is a great idea to buy them as powers defined as Drone using a Foci. I now know how I want to do this. You are right too many reach for the Variable Power Pool and this is one of the first times I have done so for a gadgeteer. I think I will just put it in his VPP as powers defined as drone. Then he can decide which ones he wants active. I have to admit making a VPP for me was a challenge where it was my first time and I've played Hero since first edition just never had a use for one till this player decided to be a gadgeteer and the GM suggested the pool.

 

It is a good learning experience for me now I was thinking of everything from a summon and another character as you proposed to making a new VPP for all the drone's capabilities, but "KISS" is in effect here and I like that better.

 

Take care.

 

Regards,

 

Larry

[LoneWolf]

Don’t use a VPP for a couple of reasons.  First and foremost is that it will probably slow the game down to a crawl.  Being able to write up power on the fly sounds like fun, but it is boring as crap for the other players while they have to wait for the character to figure out how to do it.  Second is that it is probably going to be fairly expensive to do so.  VPP are fairly expensive so it may be cheaper to just buy it other ways.

 

There are two ways you could do this depending on the nature of the drone.  The first way would be to buy clairsentience and link a mulipower to it.  Take the indirect advantage for any attacks it can make.  Put a focus limitation on both.   The other way to do it would be to buy it as a vehicle.  If the drone can operate independently from the character this would a better way to do it.  Give the drone a computer and a radio to allow it to communicate with the character.    
 

[sturmrider]

I definitely would not let him make up powers on the fly. The VPP I made had 3 powers 1 always on when the drone is flying the other two he can switch between as needed. It ended up costing 50 points I may try now to set up the drone as a linked multipower that is an interesting way to go.

 

I will let you know how it works out.

 

Regards,

 

Larry

[dmjalund]

56 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

I definitely would not let him make up powers on the fly. The VPP I made had 3 powers 1 always on when the drone is flying the other two he can switch between as needed. It ended up costing 50 points I may try now to set up the drone as a linked multipower that is an interesting way to go.

 

I will let you know how it works out.

 

Regards,

 

Larry

Use a Multipower

[LoneWolf]

A VPP makes no sense for what you described.   Since you cannot put limitations on the pool cost of a VPP it usually cost a lot more than a multipower.  The only time it is cheaper is if you have a large number of slots.  The only other reason to use on is if you want the ability to create power without having to define them.   For example if you have a gadgeteer who can create any device under a certain cost.   

[Hugh Neilson]

Agree this is not a great choice for a VPP - if you post your build under consideration, I'm sure there will be plenty of ideas and suggestions.  For 50 points, you could have a pretty nice Robotic Follower Drone.

[sturmrider]

We have bought the cost down and just made it a reconnaissance drone for him. It is linked to his helmet and not in any pools. Here is the build:

 

Spy-Drone: Clairsentience (Sight Group), x2 Range (400m), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 24m per Phase) (35 Active Points); OAF Durable (Drone; -1), Cannot Move Through Solid Objects (-0)

Real Cost: 17

 

Regards,

 

Larry

[sturmrider]

Here is the helmet it is linked to:

 

Helmet Communications and Drone Control Suite: High Range Radio Perception (Radio Group), Targeting, Tracking (27 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Affected As Sight And Hearing Group As Well As Radio Group (-1/2), Linked (Spy-Drone; Lesser Power need not be used proportionally to Power with which it is Linked; -1/4) Real Cost 12

 

Regards,

 

Larry

[LoneWolf]

You don’t need High Range Radio perception to be able to use the drone; clairsentience is all you need to be able to see where the drone is.  If the drone could do something besides allow you to see at the location, you would need to buy a power to simulate that and link it to the clairsentience. 

 

Spy Drone Clairsentience (Sight and Hearing groups) x2 Range, Mobile Perception Point (Can move up to 24M per Phase) (45 Active cost) OAF, Sense affected as more than One Sense (Radio) Real Cost: 20

 

This gives you the ability to see and hear but it can be blocked by sense affecting targeting the Radio group. 

[sturmrider]

The high range radio perception is for communication devices with other characters, but I like the changwes in the spy drone

[LoneWolf]

Change the Linked limitation on the High Range Radio hearing from Linked to OIF(Helmet).  The linked limitation would mean you can only use it with the drone.  

[Hugh Neilson]

Hmmm…

 

I’m assuming we’re abandoning the idea of a Follower Drone which can Transmit what it sees and hears by High Range Radio Transmission.

 

So let’s start with Clairsentience for Sight (20) and Hearing (+10) groups, 2x Range (so 600 meters; +5), Mobile Perception Point (24 meters flight; +10) = 45 AP.  Affected as Radio (-1/4).  So far, so good.  Now let’s check out the Limitations.

 

Is the OAF the Drone, the controllers for the drone, or both?  I’d consider OIF (for the helmet controller held by the character; -1/2), Physical Manifestation for the Drone itself (-1/4), and Limited Range (-1/4) to reflect the fact that the Drone can’t just manifest 200 meters away – it has to get there from the character. 

 

How many drones does he have?  Only one at a time as he lacks Multiple Perception Points, but if the Drone is blasted out of the sky, or if it’s 480 meters away when the character has to leave the area (so he doesn’t have the 20 phases needed for it to come back), can he just pluck out a new one later, or is it gone until he has time to pick a replacement up at home base?  If he only has one drone, that sounds like One Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), which also removes the END cost.

 

So that’s OAF (-1/2), Phys Manifest (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), One recoverable charge (-1 1/4).  Now, does the character have to use actions to maneuver the drone?  Without further limitations, the answer is no.  I’m assuming he wants to be able to direct the drone and perceive through it without more than a zero-phase action, so no further limitations.

For the Helmet Communications, HRRH that Targets and Tracks won’t crop up that often. It allows him to perceive and transmit by radio/television. Do his teammates emit radio waves? I doubt his opponents do. I don’t get how this is affected like Sight and Hearing. 

 

If it’s a team communication link, I’d be more inclined to go with Mind Link - anyone on the team (10); four minds at once (that’s a team of 5 counting this character; +10); No LOS needed (+10); Radio sense group; OIF for the character (-1/2), Phys Manifestation for the other characters’ link (-1/4), Flashed as Radio and Hearing (-1/2).  If you want less than planetary range, a further Limitation is in order.

 

So 30 AP, -1 1/4 limitations = 13 real points.

 

That leaves us with 45 AP, -2 1/4 limitations , so 14 points.

 

 

[sturmrider]

Yes we abandoned the idea of a follower drone. The OAF is the drone and he can perceive what it sees through let's say the camera on the bottom in his helmet and give commands to it through the helmet to direct it. He has one drone at a time and for some reason I forgot about the recoverable charges set that up right away. He does want targeting through the drone to hit his enemies not sure best way to set that up but just took targeting on the drone at the moment. Had to boost the number of minds it is 6 total 5 team members and himself. 

 

He can relay what the drone sees through our communication sets, but that's about it. I made those normal range which makes it about 1200 meters these are only in use when we are in combat so that should be more than enough.

 

Here are the new builds any thoughts would be very helpful and thank you very much for your input.

 

Communications and Drone Link Helmet:  Mind Link , Anyone on team, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x8) (35 Active Points); OIF (Control and Communications Helmet; -1/2), Flashed as Radio and Hearing Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Radio Sense Group (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Linked (Spy Drone; Lesser Power need not be used proportionally to Power with which it is Linked; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (Helmet; -1/4*)

 

Spy Drone: Clairsentience (Hearing And Sight Groups), x2 Range (400m), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 24m per Phase), Targeting (55 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (Drone; -1), Affected as Radio (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4)
		Notes: Mobile Perception Point (Flight)

14	Look forward to hearing from you.

[Hugh Neilson]

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Communications and Drone Link Helmet:  Mind Link , Anyone on team, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x8) (35 Active Points); OIF (Control and Communications Helmet; -1/2),

So far, so good.

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Flashed as Radio and Hearing Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Radio Sense Group (-1/4)

 A switch between mental and radio for a Mind Link is a specific example of a switch that merits no advantage or limitation (6e V1 p 160).  Same page notes affected as sight would be -1/2, and any other sense would be -1/4.  Note that switching to Radio means it is not affected as a mental sense.

 

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Normal Range (-1/4)

 

OK  Seems to devalue "no LOS", though.  Will he often be in that range, yet unable to see the teammates to establish the link?  Maybe, but he can't even reach them across town with a 1.2 km range.  Note that standard range is only 10x base points, which would be 350m

 

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Linked (Spy Drone; Lesser Power need not be used proportionally to Power with which it is Linked; -1/4),

 

So if I blast the Drone out of the sky, the radio communications shut down?  Why would the character build the receiver and transmitter into the drone instead of the helmet?

 

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Physical Manifestation (Helmet; -1/4*

 

The OIF makes his helmet a physical object.  Are his teammates also wearing helmets?  I'd buy a -1/4 for the link being unavailable if some item (even an inobvious earbud) in the teammate's possession is removed or destroyed, if that's what this represents.

 

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

Spy Drone: Clairsentience (Hearing And Sight Groups), x2 Range (400m), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 24m per Phase), Targeting (55 Active Points);

Base points before doubling range is 45 points, so base range is 450 m, doubled is 900.  For neatness, I'd set the Radio Link at the same maximum.

 

Does the character have any enhanced hearing senses, or could he get buy with 1 sense rather than the entire Hearing group?

 

What benefit does the player think he is getting with Targeting?  Note that Clairvoyance cannot establish Line of Sight.  Being able to perceive a target 300 meters away does not change the range modifier to attack that target, nor enhance the range of the character's attack power.  If he can't see or hear, he can't see or hear through clairsentience either. Absent, say, an Indirect attack that always starts with the drone (which is pushing more into "drone as follower" territory), I don't see much use in this adder.

 

37 minutes ago, sturmrider said:

1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (Drone; -1), Affected as Radio (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4)

 

I was thinking I'd stick to OIF Helmet (to establish Clairsentience) and Physical Manifestation plus the recoverable charge (to reflect the drone itself, the perception point, also being targetable).  However, I think, I'd take OAF (Drone and helmet) as -1 1/4 (as the ability to target either the drone or the helmet is, to me, enough for that extra -1/4 described at 6e V1 p380).  That would replace OAF and Physical Manifestation for the same -1 1/4 limitation.

[sturmrider]

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

So far, so good.

 A switch between mental and radio for a Mind Link is a specific example of a switch that merits no advantage or limitation (6e V1 p 160).  Same page notes affected as sight would be -1/2, and any other sense would be -1/4.  Note that switching to Radio means it is not affected as a mental sense.

This is not supposed to be a mental sense, but radio communications think of like secret service ear wigs for the other players. So I should remove the I should remove the 1/4 limitation.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

OK  Seems to devalue "no LOS", though.  Will he often be in that range, yet unable to see the teammates to establish the link?  Maybe, but he can't even reach them across town with a 1.2 km range.  Note that standard range is only 10x base points, which would be 350m

I was trying to figure out what the limitation would it be to remove it from planetary to let's say 5 km I am using Hero Designer and found they don't always have exactly that limitation in the program.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

So if I blast the Drone out of the sky, the radio communications shut down?  Why would the character build the receiver and transmitter into the drone instead of the helmet?

No the Drone does not control the communications I obviously messed something up in the build it should be the helmet with all communications, but it has to be linked to the drone to control it and receive its infol.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

The OIF makes his helmet a physical object.  Are his teammates also wearing helmets?  I'd buy a -1/4 for the link being unavailable if some item (even an inobvious earbud) in the teammate's possession is removed or destroyed, if that's what this represents.

I will definitely add the -1/4 for the earbuds.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Base points before doubling range is 45 points, so base range is 450 m, doubled is 900.  For neatness, I'd set the Radio Link at the same maximum.

That makes more sense than the one I had I will have to figure out how to do this in hero designer back to work.🙂

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Does the character have any enhanced hearing senses, or could he get buy with 1 sense rather than the entire Hearing group?

Character is just a gadgeteer who invents things and creates them as needed. Helmet and drone are something he always has and may improve in the future to include a blaster or something along those lines.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

What benefit does the player think he is getting with Targeting?  Note that Clairvoyance cannot establish Line of Sight.  Being able to perceive a target 300 meters away does not change the range modifier to attack that target, nor enhance the range of the character's attack power.  If he can't see or hear, he can't see or hear through clairsentience either. Absent, say, an Indirect attack that always starts with the drone (which is pushing more into "drone as follower" territory), I don't see much use in this adder.

I tried adding the targeting to the helmet, but it wasn't available I will have to see what I can do there. Any suggestions would be great.

 

Thank you for all your feedback. It is helping me get back into Hero after a hiatus that was sort of forced on me. Now to figure these things out.

17 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

I'd stick to OIF Helmet (to establish Clairsentience) and Physical Manifestation plus the recoverable charge (to reflect the drone itself, the perception point, also being targetable).

 

[Hugh Neilson]

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

This is not supposed to be a mental sense, but radio communications think of like secret service ear wigs for the other players. So I should remove the I should remove the 1/4 limitation.

 

Yup - switch from Mental to Radio is a -0 "limitvantage"

 

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

I was trying to figure out what the limitation would it be to remove it from planetary to let's say 5 km I am using Hero Designer and found they don't always have exactly that limitation in the program.

 

It's either "reduced range" for -1/4 or "limited power" for whatever value seems reasonable for the expected loss of utility.  How often will the PCs be separated by greater distances and unable to communicate fast enough to matter?

 

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

No the Drone does not control the communications I obviously messed something up in the build it should be the helmet with all communications, but it has to be linked to the drone to control it and receive its info.

 

Linked means that one power cannot be used independent of the other.  Is there any reason that radio communications with the team must be operating for the drone to operate, or that the drone has to be buzzing away out there for the team to communicate?  I'd say no to both.  They are both getting the Helmet limitation.  One is getting the extra Limitation for the teammates needing radio gear and the other is getting the extra Limitation for the drone being a target.

 

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

I will definitely add the -1/4 for the earbuds

 

 That could be as simple as "Physical Manifestation - earbuds"

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

Character is just a gadgeteer who invents things and creates them as needed. Helmet and drone are something he always has and may improve in the future to include a blaster or something along those lines

 

So is there a reason the Drone needs to transmit other Hearing Senses, or would just "Hearing" as the normal sense work?  It's a 5 point (base) difference if he only adds one sense instead of the group.

 

1 hour ago, sturmrider said:

I tried adding the targeting to the helmet, but it wasn't available I will have to see what I can do there. Any suggestions would be great.

 

What does he expect Targeting to accomplish?  Without knowing that, it's not possible to suggest how to build it.  The only purpose for a Targeting sense is to allow attacks to be targeted using the specific Sense in question.  Most characters don't have Targeting Hearing, but if their hearing is so precise that they can reliably aim an attack using Hearing alone (so no penalty for being blind as long as they can still hear), that would be Targeting Hearing. Targeting with the drone's Clairsentience makes no sense to me in isolation.

[Tech]

Another option is to buy it as a Robot. The Robot Drone will have the senses, not you; without the Robot, you have no enhanced sight. Throw in Mind Link or something.

[sturmrider]

19 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Yup - switch from Mental to Radio is a -0 "limitvantage"

 

 

It's either "reduced range" for -1/4 or "limited power" for whatever value seems reasonable for the expected loss of utility.  How often will the PCs be separated by greater distances and unable to communicate fast enough to matter?

 

 

Linked means that one power cannot be used independent of the other.  Is there any reason that radio communications with the team must be operating for the drone to operate, or that the drone has to be buzzing away out there for the team to communicate?  I'd say no to both.  They are both getting the Helmet limitation.  One is getting the extra Limitation for the teammates needing radio gear and the other is getting the extra Limitation for the drone being a target.

I was thinking he needed the drone linked to the helmet to see what it saw. Maybe I am wrong on this. It is not needed for communications.

19 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

 That could be as simple as "Physical Manifestation - earbuds"

 

So is there a reason the Drone needs to transmit other Hearing Senses, or would just "Hearing" as the normal sense work?  It's a 5 point (base) difference if he only adds one sense instead of the group.

I tried to pick hearing, but clairisentience only offers groups

19 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

What does he expect Targeting to accomplish?  Without knowing that, it's not possible to suggest how to build it.  The only purpose for a Targeting sense is to allow attacks to be targeted using the specific Sense in question.  Most characters don't have Targeting Hearing, but if their hearing is so precise that they can reliably aim an attack using Hearing alone (so no penalty for being blind as long as they can still hear), that would be Targeting Hearing. Targeting with the drone's Clairsentience makes no sense to me in isolation.

I have eliminated targeting I think I was confused a bit by it I am thinking like our military drones give a laser target or direct fire to our targets, but I figured out it wouldn't work for a pistol.

[sturmrider]

The player also just told me think of the helmet as having a HUD in it for the drone as well as communications for us. How do I reflect that heads up display in the helmet. I thought it was the linked attribute.

[LoneWolf]

Clairsentience already allows you to see what the drone does, no other powers are needed.   When you have multiple foci, you go by the most restrictive.  If the clairsentience is already taking an OAF, you don’t get to take the helmet as a limitation on the clairsentience.  The HUD is the special effect of the clairsentience.   

[sturmrider]

It wasn't I was trying to make it a limitation gaining points I actually made it as a +0 limitation, but if I don't have to do that great.