Wizards of the Coast Announces One D&D

[Cygnia]

 

[Cygnia]

[Shoug]

11 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Yes but you meed to know how to yes the tools. I’ m not bashing Hero but everytime some one points out the flaws of (especially) D&D and say Hero is better never really look at the issue and see if Hero really is easier or does Hero just have the issue but from another angle or a different set? Like Ild man upthread was saying how much easier is it to build a character you want than searching multi classes and feats. Probably depending on what you want. If Hero is so easy why are there so many How do I? Question are on this site? 

At its very root, Hero is a much easier game to tweak than any other, I'd say. But that doesn't mean the book, and I'm refering to the 6e books because those are the only ones I have, aren't lethally confusing. I don't mean that the layout is especially bad or anything like that, there's just way too much fancy bologna going on in Hero system to wrap your brain around as a new player. Things like the Follower perk and multipowers are extremely unintuitive, seemingly creating character points out of thin air; Talents that simply do things outside the otherwise intuitive powers and characteristics systems; Trying to figure out exactly what should be paid for with character points, where does one draw the line between mere possessions and fundamental aspects of one's character, how are we meant to make those distinctions on the fly. ETC. I have been in love with Hero for a few years now, but only distantly. I've never actually played because of running into confusions like this, despite buying several books. Hero demands an enormous amount of gaming wisdom be afforded up front, and if you don't have much experience with actual play, like myself and my brother, it's prohibitively difficult to understand.

[Cygnia]

[Cygnia]

 

[Opal]

1 hour ago, Shoug said:

there's just way too much fancy bologna going on in Hero system to wrap your brain around as a new player.

 

For Hero Fifth there was a slim volume called ...Sidekick.  I got one for everyone in my group at one point.

 

 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/19009

 

 

[assault]

The 6e version is the Hero System Basic Rulebook.

 

Apparently people used to get confused by the name Sidekick.

 

Either are nice little books, but still more general than you need for a specific game.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

Hero demands an enormous amount of gaming wisdom be afforded up front, and if you don't have much experience with actual play, like myself and my brother, it's prohibitively difficult to understand.

 

 

I think if you picked up the D&D books out of the blue, and tried to figure out how to play without anyone helping, no GM, no videos, you'd find it pretty intimidating as well.

[MrAgdesh]

5 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I think if you picked up the D&D books out of the blue, and tried to figure out how to play without anyone helping, no GM, no videos, you'd find it pretty intimidating as well.

 

Much of what is in them is defined. A D&D Fireball spell does what it says on the tin. Hero just gives me Blast or RKA then adds in various AoE modifiers, maybe Reduced Endurance and says; "Have at it".

 

The fact that a gaming table could all theoretically have Fire Mages with suites of spells all substantially different to one another is awesome, but off-putting to players who want to just pick up and play. At least, it is to many gamers I know.

 

[Trencher]

2 hours ago, MrAgdesh said:

The fact that a gaming table could all theoretically have Fire Mages with suites of spells all substantially different to one another is awesome, but off-putting to players who want to just pick up and play. At least, it is to many gamers I know.

 

This is a little bit beside the point. Hero is more easy to pick up and play if you know the rules. Thats the point that is being made. 

Dnd is a patchwork game that people play out of habit because they think its easier but 90 percent of the time you are going to go back to the books and read an obscure rule or spell description or another.

Hero is better if you know it. Dnd is neither easy to get into or easy to play after you played it a couple of years. 

[Ninja-Bear]

13 hours ago, Shoug said:

At its very root, Hero is a much easier game to tweak than any other, I'd say. But that doesn't mean the book, and I'm refering to the 6e books because those are the only ones I have, aren't lethally confusing. I don't mean that the layout is especially bad or anything like that, there's just way too much fancy bologna going on in Hero system to wrap your brain around as a new player. Things like the Follower perk and multipowers are extremely unintuitive, seemingly creating character points out of thin air; Talents that simply do things outside the otherwise intuitive powers and characteristics systems; Trying to figure out exactly what should be paid for with character points, where does one draw the line between mere possessions and fundamental aspects of one's character, how are we meant to make those distinctions on the fly. ETC. I have been in love with Hero for a few years now, but only distantly. I've never actually played because of running into confusions like this, despite buying several books. Hero demands an enormous amount of gaming wisdom be afforded up front, and if you don't have much experience with actual play, like myself and my brother, it's prohibitively difficult to understand.

Shoug may I suggest of just jumping in? What I mean is (and I’d gladly help). Do you have the 6e Core books? Because they have two sample fantasy characters.  Take normal assign skills and boom-bandits. Don’t worry about point cost. First battle, don’t worry about hit locations , END usage and STR minimum. Only thing to watch out for is if some one has armor higher than weapon damage. Then make sure that the armor is lowered.  Now go and have a fight! Then maybe two or three more then you can alter the bandits as you see fit. Grab a free map from Dyson Logos and perhaps fill out a simple trap, simple monsters and any environmental concerns such as wet ground will cause a DEX roll. The thing is if you’re new to the game the choices can be overwhelming. I know. And the dirty secret is that some of the options that are presented may not be worth it in your group. Each group is different. And you can add such details if you want ir delete them if they don’t work out. I honestly think the best way to get a feel of the game us to play the game. Good luck!

[Cygnia]

[Cygnia]

[mallet]

Anyone who still continues to make 3rd Party content for D&D after this has only themselves to blame when in 3-5 years WotC tries to do this again and succeeds.

 

I actually find it very pathetic how many people who were crying and screaming about "never supporting WotC again", even if they went back on implementing OGL 1.1, who are now, like predictable lemmings, are going back to WotC and playing D&D.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

Champions Begins was written with the idea of introducing people to the game in a simple, fun, and effective way.  Its free, and available on here and on Drive Thru RPG.  If you think the rules are too intimidating etc, check it out.

 

As for complaints that Fantasy Hero is too complex because it doesn't have everything written up for one campaign one way (one kind of fireball), that's easy.  There are several campaign settings out with their own magic system and spell lists, and monsters, and all.  The Hero Grimoire has tons of spells written up for you and the Hero Bestiary has creatures ready to use.

 

You don't have to approach this like someone who's never cooked walking into a grocery store; the recipes and larder are prepared for you to just put things together.

[Cygnia]

The votes are in.  Hubby's Friday game will be...Serenity.  So the GM still gets to indulge in his crapsack world fetish.

[Ternaugh]

25 minutes ago, mallet said:

Anyone who still continues to make 3rd Party content for D&D after this has only themselves to blame when in 3-5 years WotC tries to do this again and succeeds.

 

I actually find it very pathetic how many people who were crying and screaming about "never supporting WotC again", even if they went back on implementing OGL 1.1, who are now, like predictable lemmings, are going back to WotC and playing D&D.  

 

Apparently, the majors were expecting something like this to happen, just not now. It probably also explains why Paizo built Pathfinder 2e without using the SRD.

 

Quote

One third-party publisher told Gizmodo that they had expected WotC to update the OGL as seen in the leaked documents, but not until 2025, during the full release of DnDOne. Now many third-party publishers have moved up their migration timeline following the publicity disaster surrounding the leaked new Dungeons & Dragons OGL.

 

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-wizards-hasbro-ogl-open-game-license-1849981136

[Cygnia]

 

[MrAgdesh]

6 hours ago, Trencher said:

Dnd is a patchwork game that people play out of habit because they think its easier but 90 percent of the time you are going to go back to the books and read an obscure rule or spell description or another.

Hero is better if you know it. Dnd is neither easy to get into or easy to play after you played it a couple of years. 

I have to disagree. I joined in a 5E D&D game recently and it was very easy to generate a character. That's even with the emphasis on Background now that wasn't there the last time that I'd played (1E). The DM got me up to speed  quickly and the Player's Handbook wasn't consulted much at all in play. I just told him the spell I wanted to cast and it happened. The game flowed well and had run for about a year.

[Hugh Neilson]

16 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I think if you picked up the D&D books out of the blue, and tried to figure out how to play without anyone helping, no GM, no videos, you'd find it pretty intimidating as well.

 

8 hours ago, Trencher said:

This is a little bit beside the point. Hero is more easy to pick up and play if you know the rules. Thats the point that is being made. 

Dnd is a patchwork game that people play out of habit because they think its easier but 90 percent of the time you are going to go back to the books and read an obscure rule or spell description or another.

Hero is better if you know it. Dnd is neither easy to get into or easy to play after you played it a couple of years. 

 

1 hour ago, MrAgdesh said:

I have to disagree. I joined in a 5E D&D game recently and it was very easy to generate a character. That's even with the emphasis on Background now that wasn't there the last time that I'd played (1E). The DM got me up to speed  quickly and the Player's Handbook wasn't consulted much at all in play. I just told him the spell I wanted to cast and it happened. The game flowed well and had run for about a year.

 

So, you joined a game with experienced players and an experienced DM, and you have not had to refer to the rules yourself. 

 

How does that mean that D&D is easy to pick up by just reading the books?  You did not have to read the books. You learned from a group of experienced players.

 

I find that, often, people discover later, to their surprise, that the group didn't actually follow all the rules and/or that their interpretations of the rules are not universally shared.

[Duke Bushido]

7 hours ago, Cygnia said:

his crapsack world fetish.

 

I have always liked the overwhelming majority of people on these boards,but I have never had a higher respect dor anyone here than I do now, for you, after that comment.

 

"Crapsack world's" seem to be the majority of games the last dwcade plus a bit:

 

Dark

Dying

Forbidden

Forgotten

Dying again

 

"Hey, gang!  Let's put away our heroics and live the lives of a band of underlings powerless to help themselves in the face of encroaching entropy!  I mean, why should _we_ not enjoy clinical depression, too?"

 

If I enjoyed endless depression, I would browse memes....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris Goodwin]

I've harped on adventures for Hero in the past.  Not just adventures, but content: spells, monsters, and so on.

 

D&D 3.x had the OGL, and an explosion of third party content, meaning adventures, spells, monsters, and so on.  D&D 4e had a restrictive license, and no third party content.  D&D 5E had the OGL again, and again an explosion of content.  We're watching the slow motion trainwreck of D&D 6E happening in internet time. 

 

It's not that Hero has any kind of restrictive licensing terms at all, but you still have to contact Jason Walters and ask. And Jason is eminently approachable and one of the nicest guys in gaming and will in all likelihood say yes, but... however small a barrier asking for permission is, it's still a barrier.

[Ternaugh]

14 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

I have always liked the overwhelming majority of people on these boards,but I have never had a higher respect dor anyone here than I do now, for you, after that comment.

 

"Crapsack world's" seem to be the majority of games the last dwcade plus a bit:

 

Dark

Dying

Forbidden

Forgotten

Dying again

 

"Hey, gang!  Let's put away our heroics and live the lives of a band of underlings powerless to help themselves in the face of enceoqching entropy!  I mean, why should _we_ not enjoy clinical depression, too?"

 

If I enjoyed endless,depression, I would browse memes....

 

 

 

 

 

I have always liked the overwhelming majority of people on these boards,but I have never had a higher respect dor anyone here than I do now, for you, after that comment.

 

"Crapsack world's" seem to be the majority of games the last dwcade plus a bit:

 

Dark

Dying

Forbidden

Forgotten

Dying again

 

"Hey, gang!  Let's put away our heroics and live the lives of a band of underlings powerless to help themselves in the face of enceoqching entropy!  I mean, why should _we_ not enjoy clinical depression, too?"

 

If I enjoyed endless,depression, I would browse memes....

 

 

 

 

 

GDW went that way before the end with TNE and Dark Conspiracy. I own physical copies and the PDFs of both*, but I'd never run the settings.

 

 

 

 

*Traveller was the game that I refereed first, and it still holds a place in my heart, and occupies a huge amount of my gaming bookshelves. I kind of drifted away from buying everything around the middle of the Mongoose Traveller era, though, as I was finding it hard to justify paying for expensive books that I would probably never even read, let alone play.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

 

So, you joined a game with experienced players and an experienced DM, and you have not had to refer to the rules yourself. 

 

How does that mean that D&D is easy to pick up by just reading the books?  You did not have to read the books. You learned from a group of experienced players.

 

I find that, often, people discover later, to their surprise, that the group didn't actually follow all the rules and/or that their interpretations of the rules are not universally shared.

Yup and that’s also true of Hero. Ideally there should be a way to be able to objectively able to compare games. I do know that D&D is easier to pick up if you all start at first level and you limit what is available. You can start the game and level as things progress. There is less analysis paralysis. The same with Hero if people would embrace for new players and GMs a “first level” and then introduce options would be the best. I find now, especially older, that on paper some of those options aren’t worth adding for my group. And that is another key point about Hero that seems to be lost in the shuffle. Your group. If hit locations work for you great use them. But if they don’t then don’t use them or tell other groups that they must be used if doing normals. 

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

 

GDW went that way before the end with TNE and Dark Conspiracy.

 

 

Agreed.  That was about the time that gaming in general had this begun a move toward "darkness," which was probably supposed to be edgy, but just came off as absolutely cringe-inducing. Underground comes,to mind-  gamers of the day wanted to deconstruct everything, and nothing says deconstruction like antiheroes fighting a losing battle in a dying world, crushed beneath the all-powerful authority that runs it all, be ir government, billionaire capitalists, an,oppressive government, or some council of gods- whatever.  The challenge shifted from "fight the good fight against the bad guys!" To "this is an unbearable and overwhelming situation.  Prove you can survive it.  If you show any signs of thriving, next week's session will be more oppressive."

 

 

Dude, _Why_?!  Why?  Why?  Why?  Why game at all?  When you crawl out of your cubicle at dive-twenty or so, roll a d6 to see ir you take the elevator up ans leap out of the window.

 

No?  You made it?  Fine roll a d6 to see if you are going to stop at the bar and get drunk or go straight home.

 

Roll a d6 to decide if you acrually drive home or floor,it and,aim for a light pole.   Made it home?  Roll a d6.  If it comes,up a 1, start a fight with your spouse.

 

 

None of this sounds attractive?  You only have to buy a single d6, and it allows you to live out the same,depression that thwsw games did.

 

 

Not my bag.  Not at all.

 

TNE was.....

 

I liked part of it: I liked the idea behind it:

 

We let Fugate amet all get so carried away filling in the universe that there is now nowhere lefr to actually explore.  We _did_ leave an off_limits area for GMs to put their own stuff, but at this point, it is laughably tiny, and we already know prerty much everything that lies beyond it already, so.....

 

So hey-  let's have a long night: the imperium collapsed; we lost all the road maps-  and better!  No computer networks or any of that because of a sentienr computer virus--

 

Okay, what I _liked_ was that there had been a xonscioua decision to turn back to exploration, discovery, etc.

 

What I did not like:

 

If you lookwd to closely, you werent actually doing rhat.  All the stuff that was there before?  It qas still there, in some form or other.  Maybe individual worlds were different, but whatever world had been rolled up foe some previous version of Traveller were still there.  You wetent exploring; you were making aure the old roadmaps still worked.

 

The other thing?   The idds werw stacked against you gar beyind "a heroic challenge."  Vampire fleets, virus, militarized planets,  the loonies feom the Sword Worlds...  

 

It was just another dead/ dark / dying / fading / forgotten whatever setting, thinly,disguised as Traveller.

 

I _loved_ Fire, Fusion, and Steel, though.  That is one of the best Traveller sourcebooks of all time!

 

 

 

Though I guess fightinf the hopeless fight against the guaranteed-to-be-victorious powers that be worked for some people: Serenity is, I believe, a Cephus game, which is essentially Traveller: the universal game engine.  Legend has it that Firefly was based on an old Traveller campaign in which Whedon played, so hey: if it isn't Cephus, it ought to be!  Ha!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

 

 

I own physical copies and the PDFs of both*, but I'd never run the settings.

 

 

I dont know anything about Dark Conspiracy; I saw it in the shops of the day, but I never picked it up.  Why?  Because the two biggest buzzwords of this grimdark era foe gaming were "conspiracy"  and "dark."  (Didnt buy Dark Champions for this same reason:  too cringe-inducing a title, fitting right in amongst all these games of teenage angst and twenty-something chic.  Ugh.  Honestly, even knowing what it is, the title _still_ makes me wince in vicarious embarassment when I hear it).  There was absolutely,no way I was going to buy a gamw called Dark Conspiracy.     I do remember that the title logo looked super gothic edgelord, though.  Can't fault them for failing to triple down, can we?

 

 

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

 

*Traveller was the game that I refereed first, and it still holds a place in my heart, and occupies a huge amount of my gaming bookshelves. I kind of drifted away from buying everything around the middle of the Mongoose Traveller era, though, as I was finding it hard to justify paying for expensive books that I would probably never even read, let alone play.

 

 

Yep.  Traveller was the first RPG I loved.  It was the second onw I had played (unless you listen to every RPG author _ever_, who all fail to realize that we did not use _dice_ to play cops and robbers...  .  D and D was the first RPG someone had talked me into trying.  Hated it.  Nothing made sense, and the whole thing came off as a justification for playing with an assortment of polyhedrons.  The next bunch almost _couldn't_ talk me into playing Traveller,  but to this day, I thank them for their persistence. 

 

yeah, I used to own a lot more Traveller stuff than I do now, too.  I have slowly just been parign down to those books with significanve to me, when means a handful of 3rd party stuff for Classic Traveller, the LBBs, a few favorite adventure and aupplement books (Scouts!), and just the core rules for non-classic Traveller.  I traded my MegaTraveller away a couole dwcades ago, and truthfully, I dont care if I ever manage to replace it or not.  While I hold it in slightly higher regard than TNE, I need to s tress just how _slightly_  I mean.

 

I misswd the entirw Mongoose Traveller.  I never knew it was a thinf until,it wasn't anymore.  And again- I just bought the core rules, just to read and stack them up agaisnt the relatively pointless measurment of "could these rules have given me,the same,good,time,I had with the LBBs?  With TTB?

 

and yeah, the probably could have, if you added death back into charcater generarion and Dr-emphasised skills.

 

biight the GURPS Traveller, too.  I dont know if it could,have, simply because it came packed full of Imperium, but I proba ly xould have enjiyed it, if skills we deemphasized and death was added back in.  Both systems,kept the lethality of the LBBs, which really,wnforves roleplaying over gunplay.  I quute liked that.  I mentionwd elsewhwrr that I just acquired T-20.  Given D and D rules. I have a fear that a fourth level Traveller will be unkillable by a commoner (dont like that), but until I find the time to actually read it, I will reseve my judgement.

 

 

I like,Champions, and I will probably keep playing it until I can't, but if someone asked me,to chose between Champions, I would have to go with mt first love.