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Is Hero still your "go-to" rpg system?


fdw3773

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Egad! 

 

I went into all that detail, but never bothered mentioning the 'final form' of the House Bushido Skills System. 

 

First, I wish to apologize to anyone who came over here because you got a notification that you were quoted. 

 

If I may explain:

 

Evidently, when you spend a really long time working on a post, it "saves" in your editor.  In that past, that has not been a problem, because the next time you pull the editor up for that thread, there is a "clear editor" button. 

 

To make the first lengthy post via phone, I opted to crawl the various ap stores and downloaded a keyboard with buttons almost large enough that you can only touch one at a time.  Usually.  It also has the unexpected benefit of an autocorrect that speaks English (just not enough English). 

 

Problematically, I havent see the Clear Editor. Button since, nor have I been able to delete quote blocks as I could before.  Not sure why the keyboard makes that kind of difference, and of course, it could be coincidental.  (it is a Microsoft app, so I am pretty sure I am being keyligged the entire time, but her!  If they learn about Champions against their will, who's fault is that, ultimately?  ;)

 

Next:

 

I promise this will be _short_! 

 

All the above about the skills system was in use for years, and still is with my primary group, but I have been testing a simplified version of it with the youth group:

 

When you want a Skill, you define it and buy a Skill level.  Your skill is Characteristic roll plus 1.

 

Rhis was derived as such things as buying +1 to Per (an INT roll at heart) with a skill level, or bonuses to coordinated attack when working with a particular character or maneuver, or even just bonuses to INT rolls when working on a particular item or topic (+1 when repairing antique computer tape drives). 

 

These are at their essence skills.  You get a base characteristic roll and take a bonus because you are doing something with which you are familiar.  Because you have skill in that area. 

 

A specific skill is a three-point skill level (+2 when cracking Defender brand sages or +1 when cracking old-fashioned sages).  It is improved with additional 3 pt skill levels. 

 

A broader but skill that covers closely-related fields (+2 with woodcraft) is a 5pt skill level, and defaults to Characteristic roll +1.  This "broad skill' can be improved with 5 pt skill levels.  Additionally, a player may opt to break out an individual skill or three and raise them independently with 3pt skill levels:  the woodcraft character might decide he is particularly good at tracking, and put an additional skill level in just that aspect of woodcraft. 

 

For an 8 pt skill level, the character can have what conversationally refer to as a broad skill (Science +3, for example).  This skill starts, like the others, at characteristic roll plus 1.

 

The player may opt to use a 5 pt skill level on a tightly-related set of skills (or science field in this case, such as 'chemistry') ) or he may opt to use a 3 pt skill level to break out one particular skill.  (an additional bonus for 'Chemical analysis,' perhaps). 

 

 

I was concerned that it would get pricey quickly, but since the default is Char roll +1, a lot of initial cost is offset (versus what we had been doing) and we are able to mix broad and narrow and "cluster" skills on the same game.  Thus far, it has been working well.  It might not work as well for heroic, abut then I have to wonder how much of my concern there is based on some wish that points be expensive to slow down character progression, which I can just as easily do two other ways:

 

Declare up front that XP will accrue somewhat more slowly than the group is used to

Put a gate between XP and Skills- some sort of rule like 'you must have used this skill for consecutive successes before you may use XP to raise it (woah- I am just spitballing at this point, folks) 

 

Or you must roll a certain number of 3s, or some such thing.  I suspect if I go this route, the gate will depend _a lot_ on the intended length of the campaign. 

 

 

 

There. 

 

I apologize for totally forgetting to mention the current rules being (successfully) playtested at the moment. 

 

 

 

 

On 2/21/2023 at 2:18 PM, Opal said:

 

 

On 2/21/2023 at 3:06 PM, GM Joe said:

 

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  • 1 month later...

I had "Alone Against the Flames" for ages as part of a Call of Cthulhu bundle.  Last week I finally played through it for the first time.  This is exactly the kind of product Hero System could use.  Get me into a story right away.  Guide me through the critical steps of building a character.  Give me options, tell me when to roll dice, and help me resolve the rolls.  Then and only then, once I've taken that first step, show me the depths of the rule system underlying what I just did.  Hero System has a strength like no other rule system I've ever encountered, but I can easily see how it can rapidly overwhelm many prospective players and drive them to other pastures.

 

When I was introduced to Hero System in the early-mid 1990s, I was fortunate enough to have GMs who held my hand (metaphorically speaking) until I understood the rules well enough to walk on my own.  I didn't have to digest a multi-course meal's worth of game mechanics before even beginning to tell a story.  I don't have that kind of patience anymore.

Edited by BarretWallace
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  • 2 weeks later...

I was introduced to hero back in the 1990s in college But stopped playing around 2000 and picked D&D back up mid2000s after a couple years wargaming.

 

But picked hero back up recently and running a game. I still like D&D including different editions and types like pathfinder or various OSR types(nd other RPGs) . but yeah I think hero is getting to be my go to system. The fact I can do anything with it and the math is easier balancing then say the CR system helps slot in making it my preferred go to system

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The fact I can do anything with it and the math is easier balancing then say the CR system helps slot in making it my preferred go to system

 

This is important to remember, especially the last bit.  D&D has this reputation of being simple and easy to play and run, and all ready to go!  Which is somewhat true, but there is a lot of heavy lifting for GMs, particularly working out challenges and experience.  There's a lot of math.  Nearly all of the math of Hero is front-loaded: making characters and abilities.  Once that work is done its pretty simple and straight forward.

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4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

This is important to remember, especially the last bit.  D&D has this reputation of being simple and easy to play and run, and all ready to go!  Which is somewhat true, but there is a lot of heavy lifting for GMs, particularly working out challenges and experience.  There's a lot of math.  Nearly all of the math of Hero is front-loaded: making characters and abilities.  Once that work is done its pretty simple and straight forward.

 5th is very player friendly and easy to get into. But as a DM for 5th it’s the opposite. And Wotc doesn’t make it easy for DMs. And the CR system doesn’t always work.

 

but hero system math, once you the parameters it holds up every time once you learn it. So when I set say 40 active points and DCV at 8 I know exactly what the average is( outside killing attack roulette) and can balance encounters so much easier and know what my players handle

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On 2/23/2023 at 8:32 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I went into all that detail, but never bothered mentioning the 'final form' of the House Bushido Skills System. 


I need more!

 

This sounds like exactly what my play group needs! They are heavy on rules-bending but light on math.


Can you tell us more? Or post a document? A couple of character sheets?

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Another sticking point I've noticed is the players' dice preferences. One player didn't like sticking to only six-siders, being used to the other polyhedral dice. That can be another hurdle for some GMs.

 

I gotta be honest, I miss the funny dice.  I have a beautiful collection, now including some metal dice I will probably never use in anger.

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2 hours ago, tkdguy said:

Another sticking point I've noticed is the players' dice preferences. One player didn't like sticking to only six-siders, being used to the other polyhedral dice. That can be another hurdle for some GMs.

 

On the other hand, at least one HERO player I know prefers to stick with the regular d6.

 

At least two!  Why invest in weird polyhedrals when you can just throw handfuls of d6s?  12d6 is always fun to roll.

 

(Which is not to say that I don't own polyhedrals.  I have hematite and metal polyhedrals that devastate any surface they are rolled on, and I have the original sets that came with my Basic and Expert D&D boxed sets forty years ago, still colored in with crayon.)

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3 hours ago, DentArthurDent said:


Can you tell us more?

 

Ummm... Sure, but there really isnt much to tell.  The only part remotely difficult is hammering down how "broad" or "narrow" a chosen skill is going to be.  To go with an example in another thread: Driving.  Are you limited to 'civillian vehicles, up to and including RVs and maybe 10-ton straight trucks with automatic transmissions?  More limited that that?  Or would you prefer "if it has a seat and crawls across the earth, I can handle it?" 

 

Then you know which category you have: just cars and pick-up truck type things?   That is pretty narrow.  Might even be an everyman at "basic" level.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, DentArthurDent said:

 

 

Or post a document? A couple of character sheets?

 

 

That I cannot do.  First, my computer is very near deas (I have been complaining about that for some time now) and as such it doesn't recognize this boars (I have to use my phone to visit here) or the scanner (for those wondering why no more scan work was being done lately).

 

Further, I dont use the HERO designer stuff.  I am techno-illiterate for the most part-- not to the point that "hook your computer up to a firewall" lead me to burn down the house or anything, but on the rare occasion I drop into rhe HERO designer forum, I have absolutely zero GD idea what language anyone is speaking or what the f they are talking about.

 

That is probably my own fault.  I did play with the HERO Maker software way back when, but very quickly realized that I derived considerable pleasure from the pencil and paper approach and gave the sotware away to friend way more into that sort of thing than I ever will be.

 

To this day, I can't even read a character that isn't  on a 2e character sheet without having to really stop and study it for a few minutes.

 

If you have specific questions though, and we have ever run into such a situation, I will be more than happy to field them.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

At least two!  Why invest in weird polyhedrals when you can just throw handfuls of d6s?  12d6 is always fun to roll.

 

(Which is not to say that I don't own polyhedrals.  I have hematite and metal polyhedrals that devastate any surface they are rolled on, and I have the original sets that came with my Basic and Expert D&D boxed sets forty years ago, still colored in with crayon.)

 

I enjoy rolling a lot of dice at once too, but not everyone does. One friend thought HERO used too many dice.

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13 hours ago, tkdguy said:

Another sticking point I've noticed is the players' dice preferences. One player didn't like sticking to only six-siders, being used to the other polyhedral dice. That can be another hurdle for some GMs.

 

12 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I gotta be honest, I miss the funny dice.  I have a beautiful collection, now including some metal dice I will probably never use in anger.

 

I wonder if anyone's tried using the polyhedral dice conversions in the back of Espionage! to work out a complete polyhedral damage dice system for HERO. The guidelines it gives are just for killing damage rolls and only for the various calibers of weapons in the book, but it would be possible to work from that to get a reasonable set of guidelines for using polyhedrals with HERO:

 

POLYHEDRAL DICE DAMAGE CONVERSIONS

Listed Damage

Gun Caliber

Polyhedral Damage

1/2D6

.25 Auto

1D3

1D6-1

.22 LR

1D4

1D6

.22 LR Russian, 7.65 mm, .32 Auto, .380 Auto, 9mm Russian

1D6

1D6+1

.30 Luger, .32 Czech, .38 Special, 9mm, Crossbows

1D8

1D6+1

.45 Auto, 13 mm Gyrojet

2D4

1 1/2D6

.30 Carbine, .357 Magnum

1D10

1 1/2D6

.41 Magnum

1D4+1D6

2D6-1

.223

1D12

2D6

7.62 Russian, .44 Magnum, .45 Auto Mag

2D6

2D6+1

7.5 mm Swiss,.30-06, 7.62 Long, .308

1D6+1D8

 

Edited by GM Joe
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Let's face it: Some folks would rather see combat resolved with one die at a time.

 

Point buy is another issue. While folks who play HERO or GURPS prefer this method, people who play other games hate that method of character creation. I don't understand why, but they find it restrictive for some reason.

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Ages ago[1] I played in a game where the GM [2] had home-brewed a system heavily inspired by hero. You bought spells or abilities with points like hero, but instead of buying multiple dice for damage powers (or some other effects), the base power started at a d4 damage, and each level increased the damage die up to d12, and (I think) adding another d4 (or higher) if you went past a d12. The system overall was a lot lighter than Hero, but it felt like a complete system. I liked it and would like to have seen it published.

 

[1] As in 25+ years, so my memories of the system may not be (read almost certainly aren't) totally accurate.

[2] Nonie Rider (Quinlan at the time). She co-authored Champions in 3d, and had some other RPG writing credits.

Edited by Dr.Device
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That sounds like it might have been a success had it been released!

 

(I wonder how many not-quite-published RPGs gamers have made that 'coulda been a contenda' instead of a heartbreaker, back when publishing meant buying thousands of books in the hopes of selling them someday.)

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2 hours ago, Dr.Device said:

Ages ago[1] I played in a game where the GM [2] had home-brewed a system heavily inspired by hero. You bought spells or abilities with points like hero, but instead of buying multiple dice for damage powers (or some other effects), the base power started at a d4 damage, and each level increased the damage die up to d12, and (I think) adding another d4 (or higher) if you went past a d12. The system overall was a lot lighter than Hero, but it felt like a complete system. I liked it and would like to have seen it published.

 

[1] As in 25+ years, so my memories of the system may not be (read almost certainly aren't) totally accurate.

[2] Nonie Rider (Quinlan at the time). She co-authored Champions in 3d, and had some other RPG writing credits.

 

Sounds a bit like Savage Worlds, though there are other RPGs that use the polyhedrals in even stranger ways.

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On 4/19/2023 at 2:59 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

This is important to remember, especially the last bit.  D&D has this reputation of being simple and easy to play and run, and all ready to go!  Which is somewhat true, but there is a lot of heavy lifting for GMs, particularly working out challenges and experience.  There's a lot of math.  Nearly all of the math of Hero is front-loaded: making characters and abilities.  Once that work is done its pretty simple and straight forward.

I gotta disagree here. I’ve just had another Basic Fantasy game and winged portions of it. The funny thing is my boys and nephew kept asking how to do stuff in Hero terms-which is fine. My nephew asked if he can try to trip the goblin, after scanning the rules-which the closest the rules have is wrestling, I said roll. I was going to fudge something if he succeeded. Unfortunately he wasn’t successful. I allowed someone to shield punch too during the fight. After all these years I understood that if there wasn’t a rule-make one and go with it. So it really can be easier than Hero System. 

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5 hours ago, tkdguy said:

Point buy is another issue. While folks who play HERO or GURPS prefer this method, people who play other games hate that method of character creation. I don't understand why, but they find it restrictive for some reason.


One of the issues with 5e D&D point buy is minmaxing.

You can put all your points into, say, Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and leave everything else at the base level. Obviously, the resulting muscle moron sucks in a sensibly DMed game, but you aren't supposed to do that.

Thinking: actually this could have been an issue in The Fantasy Trip too. Memo to self: build a bunch of Fantasy Hero characters that are one-sided combat monsters, and a leader that isn't an idiot.

 

Naturally, I like the D&D point buy system, even though the characters aren't all that compared to what you can create using other methods. I just hate dump stats for most character concepts.

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2 hours ago, assault said:


One of the issues with 5e D&D point buy is minmaxing.

 

All of 5e D&D is susceptible to minmaxing.  Peek into any D&D 5e forum to find endless discussions of whether war cleric is better than hexblade warlock, or what feats combine with which subclass abilities, or which subclass to "dip" into to minmax your multiclass build.  And endless complaints about how hexadins are unbalanced.

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9 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

All of 5e D&D is susceptible to minmaxing.  Peek into any D&D 5e forum to find endless discussions of whether war cleric is better than hexblade warlock, or what feats combine with which subclass abilities, or which subclass to "dip" into to minmax your multiclass build.  And endless complaints about how hexadins are unbalanced.

I am SO glad that our group is crazy enough to pick abilities to fit a concept vs. min/maxing.

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