Package Deal Complication...

[Foxiekins]

In a game using Package Deals, what do you think about a 5 point Social Complication?   You qualify for the Complication if you take EVERYTHING in the Package Deal, because doing so makes your character more predictable...  For example, if the GM created a racial package deal for Elves, anything taking Everything in the deal would qualify for the Complication, because any character with KS: Elves would be able to predict things about your character once they know you're an Elf, and could deduce you are one, potentially...  Thoughts?

[Derek Hiemforth]

It strikes me as not being much of a Complication -- like it's getting points just for having a character concept.  Even if (some of) your abilities are predictable, that doesn't mean that how you would use them would be.

[Hugh Neilson]

Something that is not much of a complication, but is still a complication, sounds a lot like it is Infrequent and has Minor consequences - that's a 5 point Complication, isn't it?

 

The Social Complication could also incorporate some cultures or individuals having prejudices against elves.  The Dwarf and Wood Elf templates in 6e have a 10 point Distinctive Features complication (I can see you are an Elf)  A major reaction or prejudice would add 5 points to that.  Oddly, the 6e book does not discuss how "major" or "prejudiced", nor the breakpoint at which it becomes "extreme".  It does suggest that being a member of an unusual race might be either DF or s Social Complication.

[LoneWolf]

I would not allow it for several reasons.  Most package deals like this have a distinctive feature complication.  This is too similar to that and taking both a social complication and distinctive feature complication is getting points for the same thing.  Distinctive feature seems like the better choice for a complication and that is what should be used.  

 

The proposed social complication would be at best infrequently, minor and have the not limiting in some cultures, so would be worth 0 points.  The complication would be infrequent at best because it only comes into effect when the opposing character has a specific knowledge skill.  This type of knowledge skills is pretty rare.  Other than a character who has a consuming hatred for a race I have almost never seen a character purchase a KS about a specific race.  It would be minor because all it does is give a slight bonus to a roll the character can already make.  The not limiting in some culture or society is appropriate because there are going to be a lot of situations where the race in question has either never been heard of, or no one really cares about it.  

 

Unless the race in question has some major restrictions on it a social complication is probably not an appropriate complication for a package deal.  Now, if the race faces extreme prejudice that may be a different story.  Unless the character is going to be severely restricted in his behavior simply for being a member of the race a distinctive feature is probably more appropriate.  
 

[Hugh Neilson]

If that minor KS is the only element, I agree.  The character with that KS has paid for an ability, and should not need someone else to have a complication to benefit from that ability.

 

I also agree that DF and SC have a lot in common, to the point that it makes sense to have only one of the two.  The SC: Minority seems like a good example of the SC potential, and I would not also expect a DF: Minority that overlaps.

[Foxiekins]

What about non-Racial package deals...?  Things without Distinctive Features built in...?  Or do you feel the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself...?

[Derek Hiemforth]

43 minutes ago, Foxiekins said:

What about non-Racial package deals...?  Things without Distinctive Features built in...?  Or do you feel the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself...?

 

I think the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself.  I think this effect is only worth a Complication if it means that people would know these things without a Skill.  In other words, it would be kind of similar to a low-grade version of Social Complication: Public Identity.  It's not that everyone knows your biographical details or other personal information, but everyone knows these traits about you.

 

Imagine it with vampires.  If I have KS: Vampires, then I know what vampires can do and what their weaknesses are, whether they have a Complication to that effect or not.  However, if a vampire has something like Social Complication: Stereotypical Vampire, because its abilities and weaknesses match the classic cinematic traits, then even people who don't have KS: Vampires know what this vampire can do and what its weaknesses are.

[Foxiekins]

52 minutes ago, Derek Hiemforth said:

 

I think the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself.  I think this effect is only worth a Complication if it means that people would know these things without a Skill.  In other words, it would be kind of similar to a low-grade version of Social Complication: Public Identity.  It's not that everyone knows your biographical details or other personal information, but everyone knows these traits about you.

 

Imagine it with vampires.  If I have KS: Vampires, then I know what vampires can do and what their weaknesses are, whether they have a Complication to that effect or not.  However, if a vampire has something like Social Complication: Stereotypical Vampire, because its abilities and weaknesses match the classic cinematic traits, then even people who don't have KS: Vampires know what this vampire can do and what its weaknesses are.

THERE we go...  I just didn't think to use the word stereotypical...  So this would only make sense for things that are common knowledge...  Part of Everyman Knowledge...

[LoneWolf]

A social complication is supposed to affect your interaction with people and society.   It limits or restricts your actions.  I don’t see this complication affecting your interactions with others.  A distinctive feature makes your more easily recognizable or difficult for you to hide or conceal yourself.  

 

As to the everyman knowledge that is still something the character has.  This would only be worth something if it affected someone who knew nothing about the race, and that makes no sense.  Why is someone who has never heard of a race suddenly know every racial ability you have?  

 

Done as a distinctive feature it actually does create issues for the character.  Now when someone sees the character, they recognize him as an elf.  At this point if they have a KS elf, they get the roll to see if they know what he can do, characters without the roll might get to roll to recognize your abilities if the GM determines this is part of the everyman knowledge. Even if they have never heard of elves and fail the everyman roll, they still recognize you as being something other than human.  Without the distinctive feature someone seeing you may need to roll a perception roll to recognize that you are not human.  Depending on the level of the distinctive feature you may be able to disguise yourself as human, but that takes some effort.
 

[steriaca]

The idea of a package deal Complication is actually trying to recreate the old Package Deal discount from 4ed which was eliminated in the 6ed.

 

I don't remember the exact breakdown on it. Was it 5-9 points in a Package is -1 points, 10-15 -2 points, etc?