Mind Scan for specific person when that person is unconscious

[unclevlad]

I couldn't find anything about this.  The notional case:  the mentalist is attempting to find a person.  That person could obviously be asleep, drunk, or sedated.  Would this affect anything, or given that there are no rules...would you just leave that up to the GM?  Someone knocked below 0 STUN has DMCV 0, per 6E2, for starters, but anything else?

 

I'm thinking, for mind scan, everything's just a bit harder.  Since 10 is the effects increment, then saying a 10 point adjustment to each level.  Greater than EGO (to establish a mind link) --> EGO +10;  EGO+20 to use mental powers, EGO+30 to get a complete lock.

 

So, it's a 2 part question...did I miss something in the rules, so this is already covered?  And if not, does that sound plausible, or would you just say there's no penalty, or...whatever other suggestions you might have.

[Duke Bushido]

Up-front:

 

I ain't no expert.  

 

_However_, if you want an unprofessional opinion:

 

This boils down to special effect:  if your mind scan works,by searching out conscious minds or active thoughts, you couldn't locate an unconscious person.  However, as the rules do not mandate this effevt (ie, do not state that the person must be awake and /or active), I would think such an SFX might even be worth a small limitation on the Mind Scan.

 

As it is, there is nothing that says you arent searching for a particular set if brain engrams or the id or thw super-ego or even the hypothalamus ("lizard brain") or even the very sense of self each person possesses-  maybe your cleric's mind scan has the SFX of exactly that, defining the sense of self as "the soul" or something similar.

 

But again:  that's just the opinion of one ignoranus (it's like an ignoramus, but he's also kind of a butt).

 

 

If nothing else, I hope that gets your juices flowing.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I have always considered unconscious characters to be easier to affect with mental powers, as they have no conscious mind to struggle against the attack.

[LoneWolf]

I am not aware of any rules that prevent a mental power from affecting an uncurious target.  In some campaigns that have a dimension of dreams might mean that to find a dreaming target you might need the advantage Transdimensional, but that is up to the GM. 

 

 Being unconscious may prevent some mental powers from being able to do much.  For example, mind controlling someone to attack a target when they are knocked out is not going to be very effective.  It also brings up the point what are the surface thoughts of someone who is knocked out?  Do you need to read deeper than surface thoughts to affect them with telepathy?  Which also brings up the question of what happens when someone is dreaming and what level is that?

[Steve]

Per the 2nd Advanced Players Guide (page 70), a sleeping or unconscious mind has DMCV 0.

 

Per the 1st Advanced Players Guide (page 124), Telepathy at EGO+40 allows access to the target's collective unconscious or racial memory.

 

That's about all I can contribute to this.

[unclevlad]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I have always considered unconscious characters to be easier to affect with mental powers, as they have no conscious mind to struggle against the attack.

 

In one sense, they are.  They're DMCV 0.  In others, in cases like this, one need not be conscious to resist.  For example, UBO requires a willing person for most things;  if you want an unwilling person, you have to use UAA's factors.  An unconscious person is not considered willing.  

 

A notion here is, a sleeping/unconscious mind is "quieter" so Mind Scan is a bit harder.  But it's generally agreed this is left open, the rules don't go into this.

 

4 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

I am not aware of any rules that prevent a mental power from affecting an uncurious target.  In some campaigns that have a dimension of dreams might mean that to find a dreaming target you might need the advantage Transdimensional, but that is up to the GM. 

 

I'd argue you can find the person.  To read the *dreams*, maybe you'd need Transdimensional.  I've got that notion of a dreamscape.  If the character concept is Dreamwalker, then the dreamscape is mostly just SFX;  the mental powers probably take a limitation "sleeping/unconscious people only."  I'd hate to adjudicate dreaming vs. sleeping, so I'll just avoid it.  Alternately, a mentalist who's particularly good at working in the dreamscape might have advantages...easy enough to buy them as naked advantages with a limitation like that.