How to: Falling Damage Immunity

[Sociotard]

Inspired by the opening scene in Underworld, in which Kate Beckinsale drops out of a tall building and just casually walks away. Yay being a vampire.

 

So obviously this is the breakfall skill, except the example is so extreme I think it would have to be a power. How would you build the ability to fall any height and just walk away?

 

1) Lots of levels in Breakfall. terminal velocity is at 90" fallen, so a character with a 48- would be most likely to walk off any fall on a 14-. That comes to 77 pts.

2) Forcefield. 37 PD would cover 95% of all falls. I do allow Forcefield to buy 3 normal PD for 2 points, so 19 points there, plus "only to avoid falling damage" How much should that limitation be? -1? -2? As we are avoiding damage, this does seem to be "reasoning from effect"

3) Leaping. 60" inches, probably with Trigger +1/4 on hitting the ground, Only to avoid falling damage. Again, I don't know what that limitation is worth.

4) Teleportation. 5" (generally the minimum for movement powers), +10 no relative velocity, only to avoid falling damage.

 

Which option seems best.

[Grailknight]

None of the above.

 

Terminal velocity Flight, position shift with No Conscious Control and Only to avoid falling damage.

 

Not appearing to slow down and sticking the landing is the SFX.

 

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

You don't actually have to have a lot of flight to avoid falling damage, just enough to offset the falling speed as it accelerates.

[Sociotard]

1 hour ago, Grailknight said:

None of the above.

 

Terminal velocity Flight, position shift with No Conscious Control and Only to avoid falling damage.

 

Not appearing to slow down and sticking the landing is the SFX.

 

 

 

 

What size limitation would you put "only to avoid falling damage" as?

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Sociotard said:

 

What size limitation would you put "only to avoid falling damage" as?

 

As Grail wrote it?  it's an Instant, for all intents and purposes, for an extremely narrow application.  -2.  However, I'd eliminate the NCC;  the character has perfect control, it'll always work, and the condition (on landing) is already covered.  I probably would accept Instant, tho, so we're talking -2 1/2 total.  20" with Position Shift is 25;  -2 would drop it to 8.  Instant would drop it to 7.  Oh, you could also include No Noncombat Movement;  it'd be appropriate.  At 20" it doesn't change the cost tho.

 

I like it, for the right concepts.  

 

Oh...another build, I'm leaning to prefer.  Instead of Position Shift...Combat Accel/Decel.  It's a +1/4, so about the same price.  Accel or decel in 1 m...that *really* invokes the visuals, and you only decel in that last meter.  Feels like this fits better than Position Shift.  You could do both, too;  with at least -2 in there, it'll remain reasonably inexpensive.  

 

The issue here is that you'd need enough Flight to offset the velocity from falling...6E2, 141.  100m fall gets you to 40m;  210m fall gets you to 60.  

 

3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

You don't actually have to have a lot of flight to avoid falling damage, just enough to offset the falling speed as it accelerates.

 

This'd be another way to do it, and might work better.  

Air Brakes:  Flight, 20m, Combat Accel, Instant, Only to reduce falling velocity (-1 1/2) ...8 points.  Not entirely the uber-dramatic Beckinsale landing, maybe, but I'd also allow combining this with a Breakfall roll, where you translate the lower velocity into a shorter fallen distance.

[Duke Bushido]

Wierd this should come up.  I have a background NPC with a minor power, and that power is being able to survive any fall.  That's it.

 

 

Likw the poster above, I worked out terminal velocity and slapped a little extra on it just to be sure.

 

PD: 50.  Only to defend against falling damage (which I worked out to be a -4 at that time, given that he was a file clerk, it wouldn't come up.)

 

Once he discovered his power, he started showing off, drooping it to a -3.

 

Then he took a career as the world's most insurable  stuntman, and I dropped it to -2.

 

 

Anyway, simplified:

 

Find a defense, break the campaign limit and assume that breaking that limit means "infinite."

 

Season to taste.

[steriaca]

Well, there is 100% Damage Reduction available through Advance Player's Guide page 87. Sure, its costly (80 normal, 120 resistant), and doesn't actually get a reduction based on special effects, but does the job quite well.

 

100% Falling Damage Reduction, Resistant: 120 points. This resists both physical damage from hitting the ground, but also burning up in reentry (it doesn't cover the fact that there is low to no oxygen up there and the freezing temperature up there).

[Duke Bushido]

5 hours ago, steriaca said:

 

100% Falling Damage Reduction, Resistant: 120 points. This resists both physical damage from hitting the ground, but also burning up in reentry (it doesn't cover the fact that there is low to no oxygen up there and the freezing temperature up there).

 

 

You are completely correct, of course.

 

When Aaron "Crater" Carter was built, 2e was the latest and most current "e."  We didnt have damage reduction, so we used what we had at hand.

 

If I had it to do today, I probably still would not use damage reduction, considering the cost differences to get the exact same results:

 

Enough PD (and then some) to survive terminal velocity.  No ED protection from reentry friction, and no life support.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'm not sure its worth 120 points to be able to survive terminal velocity unless it also protects you from, you know, being punched as well.  If its just "I fall safely no matter how far" that's really not worth a lot of points.

[steriaca]

3 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I'm not sure its worth 120 points to be able to survive terminal velocity unless it also protects you from, you know, being punched as well.  If its just "I fall safely no matter how far" that's really not worth a lot of points.

True. Forcently you can add power limitations to reduce the cost. And it is an option. 

 

Buying enough PD to counter Terminal Velocity works also. As does buying enough Damage Negation also (othoe like Damage Reduction 100%, it can't be reduced by limiting it to one special effect).

 

Easy power limitations: Limited Power (Must Be Concess To Use...Can't Be Stunned Or Unconscious: -1/4), Limited Power (Can't Preform Any Action But Movement, Can Still Preform Move Through/Move By/Grab By Attacks: -1/4), Limited Power (Not Usable If Flying Under Any Power But Natural Gravity: -1/4)

 

Of course, your values may vary. 

[Chris Goodwin]

The HERO System puts falling and movement into slightly different sets of rules, and the interaction between them isn't always straightforward.  

 

1 hex of Flight will let you hover; I'd rule that it would let you float safely to the ground as well.  Because I dislike "advantage stacking" (i.e. 1 point worth of a power with +6 1/2 in Advantages) I'd go with, say, 10m/5" of Flight.  Put a Trigger on it, and Only For Preventing Falling Damage, and (in 6e) the Gliding (-1) Limitation.  For me as GM, that would be enough.  

 

If the "general you" want more rigor, 120 meters or 60" of Flight/Gliding spread out across a full Turn would be enough to exactly counteract gravity.  120m/60" divided by the character's SPD would "technically" be enough, but I'm not sure I'd push the issue too much.  A character with 6 SPD could spend 20 points for the base Power, with whatever for the Trigger, let's wave our hands and say 30 Active Points, and -2 for the Limitations to make it 10 points.  I'd wave my hands a bit more and make it cost that regardless of a character's SPD.  30 Active and 10 Real points to ignore all falling damage?  That doesn't sound like too much or too little to me.  The one in my paragraph above is half the amount, and while I might like to see it cost more than 5 points, 10 is enough.

[Sociotard]

Heh, 10 points is life support, immunity to toxins. I could do life support, immunity to impact damage from natural gravity

[LoneWolf]

There is also the optional rule that allows you to use your leap to reduce the damage from a fall.  It requires a held action and allows you to subtract your vertical combat leap from the velocity of the fall.  You also get your normal defenses from the damage of a fall.  From what I remember of the movie the vampires were able to make leaps of a decent height.  

 

I would not have any problems allowing a character to use his leap to negate part of the velocity of a fall using his defenses to absorb the remaining damage and allow a breakfall roll to stand as a zero-phase action with the special effect of them simply not falling down to begin with.  

 

Leaping normally costs 1 for 2M, but your upward leap is half.  The book gives the limitation upward only as a -1 limitation.  Adding in only for falling damage as an additional -1 limitation seems reasonable. That would make it 19 points to be able to ignore a terminal velocity fall.   
 

[Duke Bushido]

All of these ideas will work perfectly fine (yay, HERO and your infinite complexity!).

 

The reason that I went the way i that I did was-- well, the guy's nickname,is "Crater," for Pete"s sake.  He falls with a thud, and does his move-through to whatever he lands on.

 

Feather Fall doesn't let that happen.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Heh, 10 points is life support, immunity to toxins. I could do life support, immunity to impact damage from natural gravity

 

This I could get behind.  Its not enormously significant, nor will it come up all that often.  Its an environmental effect, and isn't really worth that many points.

[Tech]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

There is also the optional rule that allows you to use your leap to reduce the damage from a fall.  It requires a held action and allows you to subtract your vertical combat leap from the velocity of the fall.  You also get your normal defenses from the damage of a fall.  From what I remember of the movie the vampires were able to make leaps of a decent height.  

 

I would not have any problems allowing a character to use his leap to negate part of the velocity of a fall using his defenses to absorb the remaining damage and allow a breakfall roll to stand as a zero-phase action with the special effect of them simply not falling down to begin with.  

 

Leaping normally costs 1 for 2M, but your upward leap is half.  The book gives the limitation upward only as a -1 limitation.  Adding in only for falling damage as an additional -1 limitation seems reasonable. That would make it 19 points to be able to ignore a terminal velocity fall.   
 

I've always used this.

[Grailknight]

Now that @unclevald has mentioned it, Combat Acceleration on enough Flight to cover 2x (because of falling) Terminal Velocity is the best answer I can think of. It doesn't involve any die rolls and so is immune to extreme results and it stops the user in that one Segment before they strike the ground.

[unclevlad]

6 hours ago, Sociotard said:

Heh, 10 points is life support, immunity to toxins. I could do life support, immunity to impact damage from natural gravity

 

Ehhh...I suppose so, altho we've shown Flight constructs that are cheaper.  More generally, I don't like using LS for this.  LS relates to biological functions;  damage from a fall isn't that sort of thing.  Why, specifically, are you immune to falling damage, but not, oh...a large safe crashing down on *you*?  What's the difference?  It's not focused enough.  I can easily define the biological aspect behind everything in LS...but not this.  

 

To Grail:  yeah, Combat Accel isn't something we normally think of...except maybe for move-by/move-through/passing strike notions.  But it really fits the desired visual effect.  Falling is related to segments, so it's possible one might have to buy 30 meters so you use one mid-fall, then get at least to a fresh segment to use it again.

[Grailknight]

That's why I said 2x terminal velocity. That stops you in one and only requires you to be conscious in that last segment.

[unclevlad]

Terminal velocity is 60m.  So...120m????  

 

I guess you could use NCMs, but that doesn't feel right.  Nor is the intent, I think, to stick the perfect landing when you're out of control for most of it.  I think you're overemphasizing the corner case.

[C.R.Ryan]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:04 AM, LoneWolf said:

There is also the optional rule that allows you to use your leap to reduce the damage from a fall.  It requires a held action and allows you to subtract your vertical combat leap from the velocity of the fall.  You also get your normal defenses from the damage of a fall.  From what I remember of the movie the vampires were able to make leaps of a decent height.  

 

I would not have any problems allowing a character to use his leap to negate part of the velocity of a fall using his defenses to absorb the remaining damage and allow a breakfall roll to stand as a zero-phase action with the special effect of them simply not falling down to begin with.  

 

Leaping normally costs 1 for 2M, but your upward leap is half.  The book gives the limitation upward only as a -1 limitation.  Adding in only for falling damage as an additional -1 limitation seems reasonable. That would make it 19 points to be able to ignore a terminal velocity fall.   
 

This is how I'd go about it. Depending on the character you wouldn't even need to buy that much extra leaping. 

 

For Ize Zumi in L5R who jump off of mountains I'd do like a mega scale teleport with no velocity, heavily limited for that specific event.

[unclevlad]

Megascale teleport would drastically change the time required.  

 

Using Leaping is an optional rule, see 6E2 141.  However, the character applies the leap at the moment of impact...so it has to be combat leaping.  Also, it's based on your vertical leap *only*.  Even if you buy Upward Movement Only, it takes 2m purchased to get 1m up.  Upward Movement Only is -1.  Only to Land Safely...take your pick, -1 1/2 or -2 would both seem plausible.

 

That said, you need to buy it on ALLLLLL that Leap.  Even if you intend to have, let's say, a base 20m, you have to buy another 100m.  That's 50 points;  if we give -2, it'll be 17.  At -1 1/2, it's 20.  It's possible this can fit into some MPs or VPPs, of course.  I'll note that it'd cost 5 END, but by the time you reach terminal velocity, you've likely had time to take a recovery...or even multiple ones.  Unless a defense of yours costs END, this shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

[LoneWolf]

You don’t need mega scale for terminal velocity.  If you have 120M leap you can handle a terminal velocity fall.   Since you start with 4M of leap that means you only need 116m.  Apply the limitation upward only (-1) and only to counter falling (-1).  This works out to 19 points.  It will cost you 6 END.  

[C.R.Ryan]

You'd just have to limit it passing through the intervening area. Also that was just an aside about that specific case of jumping from extreme heights (Ize Zume from (from L5R). You could could do it with leaping too (infact 15 years later, it's probably best this way). Whatever feels best for the GM. Really shouldn't have brought it up, the OPs quest just reminded me of the Ise Zumi. 

 

 

[IndianaJoe3]

3 hours ago, C.R.Ryan said:

For Ize Zumi in L5R who jump off of mountains I'd do like a mega scale teleport with no velocity, heavily limited for that specific event.

 

You don't need Megascale. You only need to teleport to a Fixed Location (1 mm over the surface you are about to hit), Triggered by the impending impact.