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New character creation issues


Fryguy

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I have a player who wants to create a character similar to Mystique except this character touches her target she is not only able to mimic their shape, voice, retinol, signature, fingerprints, etc  she is also able to copy their powers. Similar to morph from the old silver age ex man, his shoes, and the animated cartoon.  He wants to use multi form, but the rules are more deformed not exactly apply in the situation. I suggested we come up with a custom adder to make multi form “cosmic“ but I’m not sure how much that should be. I welcome any suggestions to making this character. One last thing, we use 5e, but I can reverse engineer 6e. 

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This is one of the most powerful things that a character can do. I'd try to steer the player to a different concept.

 

Mechanically, the system makes this concept's cost outrageously expensive. (The go-to method is just an enormous Variable Power Pool with a series of Limitations that prevents using it for anything else but copying Powers; making the VPP Only For Multiform doesn't reduce the cost to such a degree that the character will be able to do anything else.) Socially, the character will end up copying his allies if no other targets present themselves, so whoever's the biggest badass on the team, now there are two—that can lead to bad feels from the other players. Narratively, copying Powers gives away plots that the GM might not want to reveal. ("O, so Doc Stopwatch has LS: Immortality. That explains a lot.") Also, before the character enters the campaign, the GM must carefully define what can and can't be copied, and this, too, likely has campaign repercussions. Can "learned" powers (superior skill uses bought as Powers, for instance) be copied? Can magic powers be copied? Can the cosmic powers granted to the Herald of the Planet-eater be copied? Can 1-in-a-hundred-bllion-chance, bit-by-a-radioactive-giraffe Powers be copied? How about mechanical powers, including cybernetics and DNA-rewriting nanobots? The GM must dig into the setting to determine the natural laws of "powers," and, in many settings, that's enormously complicated.

 

(And if you're using Multiform for this, there's the fact that the character potentially becomes the target in every way… but for some reason this excludes the target's Skills? And doesn't change the character's own Skills? Or does it? Does the character take on the personality of the target, too? If not then why not?)

 

The power suite that's described raises a lot of questions that demand answers before the character ever sees play. I'd encourage the player to aim differently. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with flying, throwing tanks, and shooting laser beams from your eyes. You don't have to go meta to have fun.

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One thing to keep in mind is that while the concept is cool the implementation may not be as much fun as the character think.  To keep the character balanced and playable requires putting limits on what the character can do.  Often this means the character turns into a less powerful version of what is copied. Just because the character touches DR Destroyer does not mean they are going to get all his powers.  What it comes down to, is can the character afford to buy all the powers the other character has.  Even a multiform will not prevent that.   Mimicking Bulldozer is fairly simple, but the character is not going to have the points to mimic DR Destroyer or Firewing.   

 

The other thing to consider is that this concept has the ability to ty up the game.  Using a VPP or Multiform is probably the way to go.  But that means that the character may have to create a character on the fly.  This often means that the game is stopped while this character figures out what powers they end up with.  Do you really want to pause the game, while the player writes up a new character?  This could happen multiple times in a combat.   Personally, I would be very hesitant to allow this and would only allow a player that knows the system inside and out to do so.  Even then I would put limits on how long they can take. 

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2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

One thing to keep in mind is that while the concept is cool the implementation may not be as much fun as the character think.  To keep the character balanced and playable requires putting limits on what the character can do.  Often this means the character turns into a less powerful version of what is copied. Just because the character touches DR Destroyer does not mean they are going to get all his powers.  What it comes down to, is can the character afford to buy all the powers the other character has.  Even a multiform will not prevent that.   Mimicking Bulldozer is fairly simple, but the character is not going to have the points to mimic DR Destroyer or Firewing.   

 

The other thing to consider is that this concept has the ability to ty up the game.  Using a VPP or Multiform is probably the way to go.  But that means that the character may have to create a character on the fly.  This often means that the game is stopped while this character figures out what powers they end up with.  Do you really want to pause the game, while the player writes up a new character?  This could happen multiple times in a combat.   Personally, I would be very hesitant to allow this and would only allow a player that knows the system inside and out to do so.  Even then I would put limits on how long they can take. 

Thanks everyone. Y’all bring up very good points. Especially the writing every game aspect which I brought up the to the player as being problematic at best. I’ll copy and paste all of this to him and see what we can figure out.  I’ll keep an eye out for new information as well. 

 

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Also bear in mind that without some pretty serious constraints wrapped around the ability, it's a game-killer.  As others stated, at a minimum you need to define what abilities the character can mimic (and how) and to what level. You're not going to have a starting character able to take on the abilities of cosmic-level villain because they managed to shake their hand. Even without power level concerns, as defined in the initial post the character could simply touch someone and suddenly know everything about their abilities -- quite the Secret ID killer, there....and the GM can forget about having any secrets to their NPCs or villains.

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The game time suck of a single phase of this character as they constantly stop to readjust their VPP (the method I would use) not only will constantly break any immersion but is a nightmare for any players in a team game. I would definitely steer this player in a different direction. 

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About the only way I see this being able to be done is if the character can only mimic a single power, and can only mimic up to a certain power level.  Even so that would be fairly expensive.  I would probably do it as a 60 point cosmic VPP (No skill roll required and can change as a zero phase action) with a -1 limitation only to mimic a single power less than 60 points.  That works out to be 105 points.  The character could choose any power of the other character that is 60 point or less and gain that.  They take all the limitations on the original power.  Since the only thing they need to check is if the power is not more than 60 active points it will not slow down the game.  Since they can change the pool at will this would even allow them to mimic a multipower.  Technically you are not mimicking a multipower you are just changing your VPP each time you would normally switch slots. 

 

  Anything more complicated is going to be a nightmare and should be avoided. 

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Shapeshifting Multi-power shapeshifting & various powers derived from it, of course you can't use them all at once.

Multiple Power Multi-power two or more sets of powers in a Multi-power. Since each set can feature different specialties along with other appropriate, different powers, this doesn't limit the powers. Or rather than explain this, put a line through the space between sets.

 

 

 

 

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On 3/23/2023 at 12:02 PM, Hermit said:

You're looking at a Variable Power Pool effect.

 

I agree with Hermit. This is a Variable Power Pool that specializes in shape-shifting and duplicating powers. Alternatively, they could take shape-shifting with a VPP limited to powers of the form they would take. To cut down on the adjustment time, I would ask the player to have some pre-built powers that you could approve, and that they could use. Alternatively, you could also have a few builds available for an adventure if they decide to change into someone used.

 

How do they mimic a character? Maybe they might have a Detect (Powers) kind of scan that gives them some rough info?

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Since the character really does not have control over what power he gains they do not need a detect powers.  While the player may have some control over the pool the character probably does not.  He simply gets whatever power the character he touches has up to what he can mimic. 

 

The VPP is going to be very expensive and you are probably not going to be able to gain more than a few powers.  This is why I said the player may be disappointed in the character.  This is probably going to be a very weak character.    

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Skill and METApower Mimic Pool:  Variable Power Pool, 100 base + 100 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2) (175 Active Points); Must touch person to memorize their powers (-1), Cannot exceed original persons Active Points (-1/2); all slots No Magic Based or Technological METAbilites (-3/4), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; -1/2), Missed Skill Roll gives 20pts of copied persons Psych Complications, if not then Physical (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

From my 6E character Paragon I'm messing with right now actually.

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On 3/23/2023 at 7:03 AM, Fryguy said:

she is also able to copy their powers. Similar to morph from the old silver age ex man, his shoes, and the animated cartoon.

Anything like Rogue f/ X-Men?

 

Rogue was a head-scratcher for my old group for a long time.  What we finally settled on, since the victim is out for the duration and Rogue was affected by their personality/emotions, was:

 

:drumroll:

 

Mind Control

 

No, really.  It worked because, their emotions &c could overwhelm her and end the effect.  There were some goofy doublethink limitations along the lines of "leaves body behind," but it surprisingly modeled at least one take on what her powers accomplished.

 

So, for your player's Mystique type, what happens to the target she touched & how long does it last?

 

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