Homebrewing a HERO System 2e

[Joe Walsh]

Looking back, the way disadvantages start at half their values from Champions struck me as surprising given that heroic hero system also decreases the value of additional similar disadvantages twice as quickly as Champions. The net result is that you're likely to end up with 1/3 or even approaching 1/4 the total value of Disadvantages as you would in Champions. Certainly the maximum is half the total value, and you'll only achieve that if in both cases you only choose dissimilar disadvantages. Which jibes with Champions' 100 points vs. Espionage's 50 points -- half.

 

OK, fine. So a few months later Justice Inc comes along and in it characters start with 75 points, or 3/4 the points of Champions (probably so they can buy psychic powers and Weird Talents more easily). But they still have to deal with that same ceiling of 1/2 the Disadvantages value. Should it have been a ceiling closer to 3/4?  Or does it not matter in practice?

 

It's just something I want to put some thought into so I can understand it fully. Maybe I'm missing something. Certainly I don't recall major complaints about this issue back in the 80s. But, there it is, so I want to understand it.

 

If you've worked through this already, please share!

Edited May 3, 2023 by GM Joe

[rravenwood]

6 hours ago, GM Joe said:

20 hours ago, rravenwood said:

Take a look at Danger International, pp 55-56 "Special Shells".  (As a side note, I recall being inspired by that and making a selection of different arrowhead types for my Fantasy Hero campaign decades ago.)

 

Thanks! That'd slipped my mind yesterday. It's in Espionage!, too, of course. I even have a note to update the first sentence's description of AP bullets to something like, "This includes bullets with high-density penetrator cores jacketed by copper or a copper alloy." rather than the existing sentence that's (quite naturally) stuck in the early 80s.

 

A hollow-point category could be added these days, of course. I'm not sure about doing that, but it's on my list for consideration. How would you address that issue -- or would you feel a need to address it?

 

LOL!  Espionage! also having that slipped my mind - but then again, I only purchased a used copy of Espionage! within the past decade, and never actually played it.  We played Danger International back in the day, so that's a little more burned into memory.

 

As far as hollow-point ammo, I'm no weapons expert, so I don't really know myself.  Looking at 5E Dark Champions, that book suggests that such rounds do added damage (from +1 BODY pip to +1D6 depending on the caliber) as well as +1 STUNx.

[Duke Bushido]

Remember that JI had Powers (after a fashion) and a more extensive / expensive selection of skills; it was a 3e product.

 

Personally, I though upping starting points was less than ideal:  everyone is effectively straight 12s to 15s, 3 Speed.  The difference between characters is skills (the on-paper, problem-solving, tactical differences, I mean:  who is good at what.

 

Dump an extra 25 pts on mere mortals, and you lose some specializarions as everyone can afford to overlap.

 

Just my 2 cents, mind you, and worth every bit of what you paid for it, no doubt. 

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

21 minutes ago, rravenwood said:

, I only purchased a used copy of Espionage! within the past decade, and never actually played it. 

 

Ha!

 

We have that in common, Amigo!

 

 

 

[Chris Goodwin]

17 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah the only way we ever played Danger International as action adventure stuff like Terminator vs Miami Vice, that kind of thing.  It would work fine for spies, we just didn't have any interest in hard core espionage.

 

That's not even mentioning the ridiculous number of science fiction and mecha games we used it with, or the western game.

 

Generally speaking it was action adventure, but there are a lot of different coats of paint that can go on it. 

[Chris Goodwin]

4 hours ago, GM Joe said:

It's just something I want to put some thought into so I can understand it fully. Maybe I'm missing something. Certainly I don't recall major complaints about this issue back in the 80s. But, there it is, so I want to understand it.

The group that Christopher Taylor and I were part of back then came to a consensus that 75 points wasn't enough to start with, so pretty much all of our games went with 100.  IIRC we kept Disadvantage values and diminishing returns as written in the heroic level games, and further if we were combining anything and the games had slightly different rules then the version in the game we were using took precedence. 

 

Joe, this is making me want to do more work on my "Hero System Third Edition" I've got in my Google Drive.  Not that I need to be distracted from my Star Wars Hero game or the D&D game I've taken on. .

[rravenwood]

I should have been doing something else 😅 but I went ahead and added the firearms from Justice Inc.  I put them on a new sheet, and while I double-checked the entries, you should probably take a pass over them yourself just to make sure no typos/OCR errors crept in.  There is one entry which is inconsistent but which I kept as-is from the book: the Nambu Type 11 (pg 62) lists OCV as "+2/1", and while that's probably supposed to be "+2/+1" like some of the other weapons, I didn't want to assume that it wasn't supposed to be "+2/-1".  I also left space for "Made In" info for the shotguns, although the book doesn't provide that.

 

Hope that's helpful!

Firearms for Hero System 2e - JI ADDED.xlsx

[assault]

New variant options like repriced Disadvantages could go into Espionage II without causing too much angst. Just mark the whole thing Optional and you're good.

 

Of course my hidden agenda is to leech off all this work to build a shorter "my version" of Fantasy Hero.

[Joe Walsh]

15 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Remember that JI had Powers (after a fashion) and a more extensive / expensive selection of skills; it was a 3e product.

 

Personally, I though upping starting points was less than ideal:  everyone is effectively straight 12s to 15s, 3 Speed.  The difference between characters is skills (the on-paper, problem-solving, tactical differences, I mean:  who is good at what.

 

Dump an extra 25 pts on mere mortals, and you lose some specializarions as everyone can afford to overlap.

 

I agree, 50 points + disads is good for characteristics + skills alone...

 

15 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

The group that Christopher Taylor and I were part of back then came to a consensus that 75 points wasn't enough to start with, so pretty much all of our games went with 100.  IIRC we kept Disadvantage values and diminishing returns as written in the heroic level games, and further if we were combining anything and the games had slightly different rules then the version in the game we were using took precedence. 

 

...so would it be a good approach to offer Wild Talents from JI and the Magic system from FH as separate options that each included a note as to how many base points should be added if the option is included? +25 for each, or +15 for Wild Talents, +25 for Magic, or whatever makes sense as the base-line case.

 

 

15 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

Joe, this is making me want to do more work on my "Hero System Third Edition" I've got in my Google Drive.  Not that I need to be distracted from my Star Wars Hero game or the D&D game I've taken on. .

 

I'm sorry about that, Chris.

 

 

13 hours ago, rravenwood said:

I should have been doing something else 😅 but I went ahead and added the firearms from Justice Inc.  I put them on a new sheet, and while I double-checked the entries, you should probably take a pass over them yourself just to make sure no typos/OCR errors crept in.  There is one entry which is inconsistent but which I kept as-is from the book: the Nambu Type 11 (pg 62) lists OCV as "+2/1", and while that's probably supposed to be "+2/+1" like some of the other weapons, I didn't want to assume that it wasn't supposed to be "+2/-1".  I also left space for "Made In" info for the shotguns, although the book doesn't provide that.

 

Hope that's helpful!

Firearms for Hero System 2e - JI ADDED.xlsx 17.32 kB · 0 downloads

 

Wow, thank you! That's a huge help.

 

8 hours ago, assault said:

New variant options like repriced Disadvantages could go into Espionage II without causing too much angst. Just mark the whole thing Optional and you're good.

 

Good idea! Hopefully it won't be necessary, though.

 

8 hours ago, assault said:

Of course my hidden agenda is to leech off all this work to build a shorter "my version" of Fantasy Hero.

 

Oooh, that sounds good! Let's normalize RPGs fitting in one saddle-stitched book again.

 

[dmjalund]

10 hours ago, assault said:

Of course my hidden agenda is to leech off all this work to build a shorter "my version" of Fantasy Hero.

how would you do magic?

[assault]

33 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

how would you do magic?

Pre-generated "pick from a list", with the original system behind it in "another book". (Not necessarily a literal book. More probably a file.)

A loss in universality, but a gain in playability.

There would need to be enough explanation to be able to use the spells. That would pad up the page count.

Edited May 4, 2023 by assault

[Chris Goodwin]

2 hours ago, GM Joe said:

 

I agree, 50 points + disads is good for characteristics + skills alone...

 

 

...so would it be a good approach to offer Wild Talents from JI and the Magic system from FH as separate options that each included a note as to how many base points should be added if the option is included? +25 for each, or +15 for Wild Talents, +25 for Magic, or whatever makes sense as the base-line case.

We did that for our DI and Robot Warriors games as well.  It just seemed like it was tough to build a functional skill-based character on 75-100 total points.  You could easily spend 50-75 on Characteristics if you weren't careful, or even if you were. 

 

2 hours ago, GM Joe said:

I'm sorry about that, Chris.

 

😂😂😂😂😂

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chris Goodwin

[assault]

9 minutes ago, Chris Goodwin said:

We did that for our DI and Robot Warriors games as well.  It just seemed like it was tough to build a functional skill-based character on 75-100 total points.  You could easily spend 50-75 on Characteristics if you weren't careful, or even if you were. 

I'm planning on building some Fantasy Hero characters to test this soon.

My gut feeling is that "a Package, required Characteristics and a bit of stuff to individualise the character" would probably work, but there are obvious questions with spellcasters, not to mention characters that want to buy a bunch of Packages and the Characteristics to match. Requiring them to suck up the Disadvantages needed to balance the points is fine, but once every character is built like this it makes more sense to bump up the point total.

Everyone wants to play an edgelord...

[Duke Bushido]

8 hours ago, assault said:

 there are obvious questions with spellcasters,

 

Most of those, I believe are going to come down to your magic system:

 

If your magic is a Power Pool that Requires a Skill Roll, you will get one price.  [You are also not playing 2e unless there are Gadgets involved.      ) If your magic is a skill with modifiers determined by the AP of a particular spell, you will get another price.  If each spell is its own skill, you will get a third price.  If each spell is a complete power build, you will get a fourth price.  Throw in things like mandatory advantages and limitations, and all of those pric2ws may or may not change again, depending on campaign mandates for the pricing of said modifiers.

 

From a rules-alone standpoint, there is no balance problem here.  From a GM standpoint, it is still the same crapshoot that it has been to this day.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, assault said:

not to mention characters that want to buy a bunch of Packages and the Characteristics to match.

 

This is a GM thing as well: are the Disads in Package Deals counted against the other Disads for purposes of halving value or are they unique and allowed to retain full value?

 

(I only mention this because a lot of us discovered Package Dealss don't work well if the Disads are treated as "normal (subject to halving with recurring instances, etc)" to the point that a character may have to take on several additional Disads because of category duplication in one or more of his packages.  Some GMs allowed Package Disads to kind if "slide" (retain their full value regardless of previous or subsequent instances), while others used it as a natural means of limiting the number of Packages a character would start with:

 

"I want the Dwarf package, the Merchant package, the well-Travelled package and--"

 

"Tom, you realize that's already five Physical (Social) Limitations, right?"

 

"Oh."

 

So this, too, is not a rules issue; it is a campaign rules issue.

 

 

8 hours ago, assault said:

Everyone wants to play an edgelord...

 

 

What's that?  The long-handed way to say "Elf?"

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Duke Bushido

[Chris Goodwin]

41 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

This is a GM thing as well: are the Disads in Package Deals counted against the other disses for purposes of halving value or are they unique and allowed to retain full value?

 

(I only mention this because a lot of us discovered PDs don't work well if the disses are treated as "normal," to the point that a character may have to take on several additional Disses because of category duplication in one or more of his packages.  Some GMs alloeed Package disses to kind if "slide", while others used it as a natural means of limiting the number of packages:

 

I think that back in the day we had packages count separately from regular Disads for purposes of diminishing returns. 

 

43 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

What's that?  The long-handed way to say "Elf?"

 

Nope!  It's the Drizzt do'Wolverine character with dual katanas, duster, mirrorshades, and a backstory that includes striking out on his own at age 3 after the orphanage he lived in (where he was sent after his parents died) was burned down, leaving him the sole survivor of at least two different tragedies.

[Duke Bushido]

Ans then later on we find out he burned it down himself to kill the vampires that ran the place?  And now he is on the hunt for the mastermind behind pop sensation Britany Spears?  And he doesn't know the difference between a fedora and a trilby?  And he has a full beard that somehow stops growing just below his jawline?

 

That guy?

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

Ans then later on we find out he burned it down himself to kill the vampires that ran the place?  And now he is on the hunt for the mastermind behind pop sensation Britany Spears?  And he doesn't know the difference between a fedora and a trilby?  And he has a full beard that somehow stops growing just below his jawline?

 

That guy?

 

 

 

Oh, you've met him.

[Joe Walsh]

The accuracy pass is done! 🎉

 

(No guarantees that it's a perfect verbatim copy, of course, but the text-only copy of Espionage! is in pretty good shape now.)

 

Now to make a copy of the file so we have an unedited edition, and then make the obvious typo corrections and such which I've noted below (and any others I notice):

Quote

Ensure all references to the game's title include the exclamation point for consistency.

p 4, paragraph 1: In the second sentence, change "based on the Package Deals" to "based on Package Deals".

p 4, column 2, paragraph 2: In the first sentence, remove the comma after "primary Characteristics".

p 4, column 2, paragraph 2: In the second sentence, remove the comma after "base value".

p 4, column 2, paragraph 3: In the first sentence, capitalize "Characteristics".

p 6, column 1, paragraph 6: Add a sentence saying, "Any fractional value is dropped when calculating SPD."

p 6, column 1, paragraph 7: Use an example of DEX 16 to better illustrate that fractional SPD values are truncated.

p 8, column 2, paragraph 2: In the second sentence, change "as guideline" to "as a guideline".

p 11, column 1, paragraph 6: In the second sentence, change "inaccessable" to "inaccessible".

p 11, column 2, paragraph 7: Change the first sentence to, "The character knows how to deal with bureaucrats, cut through red tape, and extract information from bureaucracies, as well as who to talk to and how to reach them."

p 13, column 2, paragraph 7: In the second sentence, change "moustache" to "mustache".

p 14, column 1, paragraph 5: In the third sentence, change "underequipped" to "under-equipped".

p 14, column 1, paragraph 6: In the second sentence, change "conditons" to "conditions".

p 16, column 2, paragraph 1: Change both instances of "Weapons Familiarity" to "Weapon Familiarity" so this entry agrees with the rest of the book.

p 19, column 2, paragraph 2: In the third sentence, change "GameMaster" to "Game Master".

p 21, column 2, paragraph 4: Between the second and third sentences, insert the following: "The character may also choose to buy the Area Assignment package if it is appropriate to the character conception."

p 23, column 1, Espionage Package: Change "Weapon Skill" to "Weapon Skill Level".

p 23, column 1, Counterespionage Package: Change "Weapon Skill" to "Weapon Skill Level".

p 23, column 2, Covert Action Package: "Change "Weapon Skill" to "Weapon Skill Level".

p 23, column 2, paragraph 1: Change all instances of "Weapon Skill level" to "Weapon Skill Level".

p 24, column 1, paragraph 9: In the second sentence, change "wirecutters" to "wire cutters".

p 24, column 2, Equipment table: Change "Infra Red" to "Infrared" for both the sight and the flashlight.

p 24, column 2, paragraph 4: In the last sentence, change "a-1" to "a -1".

p 24, column 2, paragraph 8: In the first sentence, change "lowlight" to "low light".

p 24, column 1, paragraph 1: In the first sentence, change "heights, and land" to "heights and land".

p 24, column 1, paragraph 12: In the last sentence, change "additonal" to "additional".

p 27, column 2, paragraph 3: In the third sentence, change "judgement" to "judgment".

p 28, column 1, paragraph 5: In the third sentence, change "judgement" to "judgment".

p 28, column 2, paragraph 10: In all cases, change "Skill Levels" to "Weapon Skill Levels".

p 29, column 1, paragraph 1: In the first sentence, change "Hand to hand" to "hand-to-hand".

p 30, column 1, paragraph 4: In all instances, change "Burst fire" to "Burst Fire".

p 30, column 1, paragraph 10: In the last sentence, change "NPCS" to "NPCs".

p 30, column 2, paragraph 2: In the first sentence, change "takes a negative modifier on OCV." to "he takes a negative modifier on his OCV."

p 30, column 2, paragraph 2: In the second sentence, change "a covered target would" to "a covered target would get".

p 30, column 2, paragraph 6: In the first sentence, change "modifers" to "modifiers".

p 32, column 1, paragraph 4: In the second sentence, change "by which the held person makes his roll" to "by which the attacker makes his roll".

p 32, column 2, Melee Weapons Chart: Change the many instances of "1O6" to "1D6" and "206" to "2D6".

p 33, column 2, paragraph 5: In the last sentence, change the degree symbol into an apostrophe in "GM doesn't want to bother with it."

p 35, column 1, paragraph 6: In the last sentence, remove the comma after "damage" and add it after "penetration".

?p 35, column 2, paragraph 9: In the second sentence, change "corner to his left" to "corner to his right".

?p 35, column 2, paragraph 9: In the third sentence, change "corner to his right" to "corner to his left".

p 36, column 1, paragraph 4: In the second sentence, change "energy to target" to "energy to the target".

p 37, column 2, paragraph 7: In the last sentence on the page, change "will will" to "will".

p 39, column 1, paragraph 1: In the second sentence, change "is a one" to "is one".

p 40, column 2, paragraph 8: In the first sentence, change "gunbattle" to "gun battle".

p 41, column 2, paragraph 2: In the first sentence, change "whenever" to "Whenever".

p 41, column 1, paragraph 3: In the first sentence, change "attemopt" to "attempt".

p 41, column 1, paragraph 3: In the third sentence, change "wil" to "will".

p 41, column 2, paragraph 3: After the semicolon, change "in such case" to "in such cases"

p 42, column 1, paragraph 2: In the first sentence, replace "judgement" with "judgment".

p 42, column 1, paragraph 9: In the first sentence, change "BODY X" to "BODYx".

p 42, column 2, paragraph 2: In the last sentence, change "Con" to "CON".

p 42, column 2, paragraph 5: In the first sentence, replace "judgement" with "judgment".

p 42, column 2, paragraph 5: In the last sentence, change "Con" to "CON".

p 42, column 2, paragraph 7: In the first sentence, replace "judgement" with "judgment".

p 42, column 2, paragraph 5: In the last sentence on the page, change "Con" to "CON".

p 44, column 2, paragraph 4: In the first sentence, change "physicial" to "physical".

p 44, column 2, paragraph 10: In the first sentence, change "Percepion Roll" to "Perception Roll".

p 45, column 1, paragraph 3: In the second sentence, change "auomatically" to "automatically".

p 46, column 1, paragraph 5: In the secon sentence, change "he subtracts 1 from other's Perception Rolls" to "he subtracts 1 from the other's Perception Rolls"

p 47, column 1, paragraph 3: In the second sentence, change "smaller than object" to "smaller than the object".

p 49, column 2, paragraph 2: Add a period at the end of the final sentence.

p 49, column 1, paragraph 6: In the first sentence, change "1 hexside to turn" to "1 hexside per turn".

p 50, column 2, paragraph 2: In the second sentence, change "obsticle" to "obstacle".

p 51, column 1, paragraph 3: Prepend the second sentence with the word "When" so that it reads, "When a car side swipes something..."

p 52, column 1, paragraph 4: In the first sentence, change "fetures" to "features".

p 53, first paragraph, last sentence: change "character's" to "characters'"

p 53, column 2, paragraph 3: In the next-to-last sentence, replace "judgement" with "judgment".

p 56, column 1, paragraph 1: In the first sentence, change "Occasionally, mission will" to "Occasionally, a mission will"

p 56, column 2, paragraph 6: in the third sentence, change "the character be training" to "the character to train"

p 57, column 1, paragraph 4: In the final sentence, change "Citywise" to "City Knowledge"

p 57, column 1, paragraph 5: In the second sentence, change "Citywise" to "City Knowledge"

p 57, column 2, paragraph 4: change "actions that may can generate" to "actions that may generate"

p 58, column 2, paragraph 4: Change "all hell wil" to "all hell will" in the second sentence.

p 60, column 1, paragraph 3: In the fourth sentence, change "shoot at them!" to "shoot at their characters!"

p 60, column 1, paragraph 5: In the first sentence, change both instances of "players" to "characters".

p 60, column 1, paragraph 5: In the first sentence, change "use for it later on" to "use for them later on".

p 60, column 1, paragraph 6: In the first sentence, change "players" to "characters".

p 60, column 1, paragraph 9: In the last sentence, change "open up on them" to "open up on their characters".

p 60, column 2, last paragraph: Change "The GM rolls 3D6 = 9 for Raoul, he makes his roll and hears John." to "The GM rolls 3D6 = 9 for Raoul; he makes his roll and hears John." Also change "Jim" to "John" later in the paragraph.

p 61, column 1, paragraph 12: Change "Stun Mutiple" to "Stun Multiple"

p 61, column 2, paragraph 5: Change "ony" to "only"

p 62, column 2, paragraph 2: Change "figured charastics" to "figured characteristics"

p 63, column 2: Under "Player" change "CHAMPIONS" to "ESPIONAGE!"

 

 

 

My goal with this pass is to make no substantial changes. I just want to correct obviously wrong things like typos and such.

 

So, do the questionable-to-me items from page 35 qualify? I'm not sure. What do you think? This is repeated verbatim in all subsequent 3e games, which makes me think it's right. But to me it gets the left/right corners backwards. Or am I thinking about it wrong?

 

Quote

A character performing a Snap Shot takes a -1 OCV, and he gets his full DCV plus a concealment modifier. 
A right-handed character firing around a corner to his left will be exposed head and shoulders only, and thus get a +4 DCV. 
The same character firing around a corner to his right would have to expose more of his body, and would only get +2 DCV for being half concealed (see the Hit Location Charts).

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by GM Joe

[Joe Walsh]

Other than the left/right corner issue above, all of the noted typos and such have been fixed and a copy has been saved.

 

In a separate copy of that file, I made the following additional changes for consistency:

Quote

Skills:
    Page 16, Paragraph 1: Under Transport Skills, change "a car" to "personal automobiles" so it is more in line with the existing Ground Vehicles list.

    In Weapon Familiarity, include the fact that everyone is assumed to have Weapon Familiarity with Clubs (as mentioned in Combat) given that the default ability to drive a car is mentioned under Transport Skills.
    In Other Skills, note the base Running (6") and Swimming (2") rates in their respective entries. Clarify when the increased cost of each kicks in.

 

Vehicle Combat:
    Page 50, Paragraph 1, Sentence 2: Delete this sentence, then add a new one after the sentence on Combat Vehicle Operation: "Characters without Combat Vehicle Operation skill who have the appropriate Transport Skill (including the assumed personal automobile skill) have a Control Roll of 8-."

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by GM Joe

[rravenwood]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:37 AM, GM Joe said:

So, do the questionable-to-me items from page 35 qualify? I'm not sure. What do you think? This is repeated verbatim in all subsequent 3e games, which makes me think it's right. But to me it gets the left/right corners backwards. Or am I thinking about it wrong?

 

Quote

A character performing a Snap Shot takes a -1 OCV, and he gets his full DCV plus a concealment modifier. 
A right-handed character firing around a corner to his left will be exposed head and shoulders only, and thus get a +4 DCV. 
The same character firing around a corner to his right would have to expose more of his body, and would only get +2 DCV for being half concealed (see the Hit Location Charts)

 

I think the text as written in the book makes sense.  Think of the way the elbow naturally works.  One's right arm can very easily point to the left while essentially laying flat across one's torso, meaning that it doesn't have to stick out much past the wall which covers the rest of the character (excluding the head, which has to be exposed as well in order to see!).  To point to the right, however, more of a person's body needs to stick out past the cover in order to aim at those targets around that corner to the right.  (Hopefully that makes sense.  Just stand against a corner and try it and you'll see what I mean.)

[Joe Walsh]

8 hours ago, rravenwood said:

 

I think the text as written in the book makes sense.  Think of the way the elbow naturally works.  One's right arm can very easily point to the left while essentially laying flat across one's torso, meaning that it doesn't have to stick out much past the wall which covers the rest of the character (excluding the head, which has to be exposed as well in order to see!).  To point to the right, however, more of a person's body needs to stick out past the cover in order to aim at those targets around that corner to the right.  (Hopefully that makes sense.  Just stand against a corner and try it and you'll see what I mean.)

 

I feel so dumb lol I still don't get it. 😂

 

Maybe a picture will help me.

 

Here's a person trying to shoot around a corner to his left. When using his left hand on the trigger, he seems much better protected.

 

Or is he doing something wrong?

 

(It's from this article for anyone interested: https://www.recoilweb.com/how-to-use-cover-lessons-from-the-special-operations-community-150133.html )

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by GM Joe

[rravenwood]

For the example of a right-handed shooter firing around a corner to their left, let's assume they are facing north, so they are firing to the west.  In my mind's eye I picture it as the shooter keeping most of their body behind the corner, still facing north, and only leaning their torso and head out enough so that their right arm (holding the gun - which I see as being a handgun) is pointing west, to the left, and can make the shot.  Their head is turned to the left (west) as well.  So their target would see the gun just clearing the corner, along with the attacker's shoulder and head.  (This is unlike your first photo above, where the shooter is using their left hand.)

 

For the example of the right-handed shooter firing around a corner to their right, they're now firing to the east.  I picture this (again, using a handgun), as the shooter at the very least having to lean out their torso and head much further so their whole right arm can point to the right (to the east), and probably also expose some of their left leg for added stability.  This is closer to your second photo, but I'm picturing the shooter as being a little less exposed than that.

 

Does that help?

 

I'm assuming a handgun here because Espionage! is spy-centered, and most spy characters would presumably be running around with handguns (because they're more concealable, etc.)

Edited May 11, 2023 by rravenwood

[Joe Walsh]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:02 PM, rravenwood said:

For the example of a right-handed shooter firing around a corner to their left, let's assume they are facing north, so they are firing to the west.  In my mind's eye I picture it as the shooter keeping most of their body behind the corner, still facing north, and only leaning their torso and head out enough so that their right arm (holding the gun - which I see as being a handgun) is pointing west, to the left, and can make the shot.  Their head is turned to the left (west) as well.  So their target would see the gun just clearing the corner, along with the attacker's shoulder and head.  (This is unlike your first photo above, where the shooter is using their left hand.)

 

For the example of the right-handed shooter firing around a corner to their right, they're now firing to the east.  I picture this (again, using a handgun), as the shooter at the very least having to lean out their torso and head much further so their whole right arm can point to the right (to the east), and probably also expose some of their left leg for added stability.  This is closer to your second photo, but I'm picturing the shooter as being a little less exposed than that.

 

Does that help?

 

I'm assuming a handgun here because Espionage! is spy-centered, and most spy characters would presumably be running around with handguns (because they're more concealable, etc.)

 

Ah, I see. I wasn't thinking about it that way. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand what they meant!

 

(I guess I'd better get cracking on this stuff because Jason chose a selection of the files from this project and made them part of the official Espionage! downloadable package on DTRPG. 😬)

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by GM Joe

[Joe Walsh]

Here's another 2e/3e rule that was lost during the 4e system integration. I'm writing it down here mostly so I don't forget. Heck, it seems even more relevant today than in 1983, with the rise of YouTube "How to" videos and the like:

 

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Generally, any Knowledge Skill can be used by anyone (for no cost) with an 8 or less chance, if they have appropriate references (books, maps, etc.).

 

"Generally" is doing a lot of work there, but still -- losing the ability for anyone to attempt reasonable Area Knowledge, City Knowledge, Cultural Knowledge, Knowledge, Languages, Professional Skills, Sciences, and Transport Skills with an 8- as long as they have appropriate references was a big deal, in retrospect. I'm glad to welcome it back into my sessions!

Edited May 13, 2023 by GM Joe

[Joe Walsh]

I feel old. It's taking more effort than it should to write in the current style for RPGs. I keep defaulting to phrasing like "the character" and "the GM" instead of "your character" and "your GM". But I'll get there!

 

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What Defines Your Character

 

Your character begins with standard values for each of fourteen Characteristics along with the ability to use a variety of Skills (some only with assistance). They also have a number of other capabilities, some of which are derived from related Characteristics.

 

You’ll receive an allotment of Character Points to customize your character by purchasing Characteristics and Skills. You can add Disadvantages to your character to further define them and earn an extra allotment of Character Points.

 

Characteristics are divided into two categories: primary and figured. Primary Characteristics such as Strength, Intelligence, and Presence begin with a base value of 10, while figured Characteristics such as Physical Defense, Speed, and Recovery have base values calculated from primary Characteristic values. You can buy up or sell down your Characteristics to fit your character conception.

 

Several capabilities are derived from the Characteristics, including jumping distance, perceptiveness, and accuracy in combat. Others, like running and swimming speeds, start with default values. You can adjust them in one or more ways, such as through the purchase of Skills or by altering the value of the Characteristic they’re derived from.

 

The Skills everyone is assumed to have include Climbing, Deduction, and Stealth. The Skills everyone has access to with appropriate reference materials include knowledge of specific areas and cultures, as well as how to perform routine professional or scientific tasks. The chance of using these Everyone Skills successfully is lower, but they can provide needed options when your character’s strengths lie elsewhere. Taking extra time will improve your character’s chances.

 

You can use some of your Character Points to buy Skills that give your character a better chance at any of the above, or to show particular areas of expertise, interest, or experience with any of the Skills.

 

Adding Disadvantages can make the character more interesting to play and more grounded in the game world. As a bonus, giving your character Disadvantages gives you more points to use for Characteristics, Skills, and Abilities.

 

Packages simplify the process of character creation. You can select a Package that fits with your conception of the character and simply follow its guidance about Characteristics, Skills, and Disadvantages, then optionally add to that solid base to further define and personalize your character.

 

 

 

^ The result of more than 2 hours of effort over two days. 😩

Edited May 15, 2023 by GM Joe