Anthropomorphic races

[Curufea]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

If all animals were sentient, the most likely result of this one would be 'Kill Bunnies'.

 

The bunnies, mice, deer, and 'assorted cute fuzzies' would by definition vastly outnumber the predator races.

 

They would arm themselves and take a page from history's 'G' section - genocide. Armed rabbits would wipe out the foxes, cats, wolves, and even polar bears. Even if you armed the predators. At that point it becomes a numbers game.

 

I disagree - intelligence does not equal a disposition to violence.

 

Have a look at Puppeteers from Ringworld.

 

Once a herd animal, always a herd animal.

[Lethosos]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

The best way to avoid the predator/prey issues lie in actually having them end up being omnivorous, somehow. True, some species tend to lean in one way or another, but their diet allows for both kinds of consumption. With that, some sort of 'seninablisim' taboo would come out--it's largely dependant on the society.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

I solved the carnivorous anthro problem with the simple device of making one class of animal non-sentient. Specifically, nothing with hooves can speak. Thus cattle, horses, goats and sheep are all fair game. Also, fish and other seafood.

 

There is a strong social taboo in all "right-thinking" species that forbids the eating of talkers. It's looked upon with the revulsion reserved for cannibalism.

 

Keith "Stick a fork in it. If it doesn't complain, hand me a napkin" Curtis

[BNakagawa]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

Bear in mind that the Chinese were backed up with Soviet supplied Jet fighters, trainers and support personnel. Just focussing on the human wave misses out on some critical elements.

 

Compare and contrast how the Iranians fared against another Soviet supplied force (the Iraqis) and how well their human waves did without a proper air force.

 

The answer is - poorly.

[BlackSword]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

I solved the carnivorous anthro problem with the simple device of making one class of animal non-sentient. Specifically, nothing with hooves can speak. Thus cattle, horses, goats and sheep are all fair game. Also, fish and other seafood.

 

There is a strong social taboo in all "right-thinking" species that forbids the eating of talkers. It's looked upon with the revulsion reserved for cannibalism.

In the Sanguine's *Claw books, lizards took up the roles left by evolution. So there are large lizards which take up take up the role of horse and cattle, and smaller ones that are chicken equivilants. In the wild you might run into a large predator, or a deer like lizard. Basically just a cheap way to get around the carnivore issue. There are a few anthropmoporphic lizard races as well (dragon, snake), but most of the furries are...well...furry.

[arcady]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

I disagree - intelligence does not equal a disposition to violence.

 

Have a look at Puppeteers from Ringworld.

 

Once a herd animal, always a herd animal.

No, but it does mean you can think of new ways to survive - that's a core aspect of intelligence.

 

Actually, one of the key things intelligence gives humanity is that while many species murder for pure fun (watch cats or wolves sometime - they kill just for kicks, or to hurt the feelings of surviving victims, and so on - very evil minded animals) we are the only species that while doing that, can then turn around and choose not to do it.

 

You cannot teach a wolf or a cat to stop murdering. They will not only hunt to survive, they will hunt for thrill kicks or to harm, and it cannot be 'unlearned'. But you can teach a human to find alternatives for agression, thrills, and anger.

 

 

It's an issue of free will which is something of what defines sentience. An intelligent animal will be able to look at a situation and re-examine its options.

 

 

You're prey;

Given: these other guys keep trying to kill me and my people.

Given: In our pre-sentient past, the animals we evolved out of only had the choice of running and watching as those they loved were killed.

 

Given: I can think now.

Given: How can I keep from getting killed.

Solution: remove the killer.

Method 1: Kill them first.

Method 2: isolate them away.

 

So you either wipe out the predators or you ship them somewhere and confine them.

 

You may be a herd animal, but you're a herd animal with brains, and you want to live.

 

Herd animals -do- protect their fellows. Almost every land animal does that to some degree, as do many underwater animals.

 

If you had the choice of running and losing loved ones or removing the threat, and you could easily remove the threat because your numbers were so vastly superior... you would, if you had any brains, remove the threat.

 

And in this argument, we're giving them brains.

 

Heck, even other predators would remove each other... Wolves kill coyotes and cats everyday. Give the cats and coyotes a pack of grenades, a sniper rifle, or even some suicide bombers and the wolves will have a problem. So the wolves will try to get armed first...

 

And when those two have near wiped each other out, the winner goes for the bison, who just machine gun him down with their several hundred thousand people who have access to the same brain power and same tech (heck, even unarmed, several hundred thousand bison will take out a few hundred wolves with modern military gear just by running in a coordinated direction by communicating).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

(heck' date=' even unarmed, several hundred thousand bison will take out a few hundred wolves with modern military gear just by running in a coordinated direction by communicating).[/quote']

 

 

Adding weight to this argument is the fact that this will happen by the time the animals develop Iron Age tech, if not sooner (assuming all species develop their intelligence and subsequent technology at the same rate).

[BNakagawa]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

Not all herd animals are into protecting their fellow herd members.

 

The vast majority actually seem to avoid helping their fellows when under attack by predators, taking a 'better him than me' approach.

 

The typical overall strategy for herd animal survival is to breed more than the predators kill and eat.

[Lethosos]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

Naka, I think it varies, actually.

 

Individually, they will favor one or the other of those two mentalities. It's only when two factors come into play that makes the group do one or the other. They are herd size and advantage.

 

In a small herd, it's splitsville--even a decent advantage will favor guerilla tatics over group combat.

 

But in a large herd, opinion will sway depending on the advantage.

[arcady]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

It's intelligence that shifts the argument.

 

With brains, they will know the advantages of coordinating and helping out their fellows.

 

Intelligence is highly linked to socialization - with some theories even linkng it back to standing upright and the problems that gives with childbirth. The notion there being that this forces us to give birth to 'premature adults'. Where in most species an animal once born can fend for itself in a fairly short while - our children are born years before they really ought to leave the womb - as anything more developed will crush the pelvis of the mother on the way out.

 

Jared Diamond advances this notion in his book 'Why is sex fun?' (or a title very much like that).

 

The relevancy here is that intelligence and socialization link together - they are developed as tools to deal with unfit offspring.

 

You have to suddenly nurture that offspring, and that leads to the development of more and more sophisticated means of teaching, communicating, and learning.

 

Which creates society as parts of the supportive backdrop to enable those factors as well as protect the unfit offspring and those members deligated to their advancement.

 

Socialization thus revolves around the notion of protecting your fellows. It is in your own interest to do so - they carry with them your own genetic potential and your own survivability.

 

On those grounds, even many anti-social animals can learn the value of protecting each other.

 

 

 

The idea of intelligent prey that tolerates a vastly smaller population eating its members goes in the same category as giant mecha and the Force - it may be fun fiction, but it has no basis in realism.

[Alverant]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

Well to get back to the original subject, I'd let the players decide for themselves. Allow them say 30 points for skills and powers (tunneling, enhanced senses, etc) and 10 disad points to simulate their animal traits. Animals have enough variety to account for differences if two characters pick the same animal but buy different abilities. I'd also make a mandatory 5 point DF if you have many different species in your campaign. (If no one species is usual, then everyone is unusual.)

[Old Man]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

The typical overall strategy for herd animal survival is to breed more than the predators kill and eat.

 

Is that the basis behind "Make Love Not War"?

[BNakagawa]

Re: Anthropomorphic races

 

Intelligence doesn't change things as much as you might think.

 

Historically, the japanese population allowed a small percentage of the population to rule with an iron fist with the ability to kill any commoner they felt like killing. The samurai were never more than a small percentage of the overall populace, and yet they held their position for centuries.

 

The Spartans also dominated many times their number of subjugated peoples and made their lives pretty miserable. (granted they also made their own children's lives pretty miserable, too)

 

Mythologically, the Thebans sacrificed 20 youths a year to the minotaur, didn't they? Was it the Mayans or the Aztecs who cut the hearts out of prisoners of war to their sun god? I don't remember.

 

Tribute and appeasement has been a solution for a majority to deal with a predatory minority for a long time. I doubt things would change if they had different colored fur or different shaped heads.