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If someone drops or puts something very heavy on a character, how do you determine damage? Let's say a 1 ton vehicle is put on a character who has a 10 Str - not enough to lift it off - what happens? Also, how often does the damage occur?

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If the object simply falls,  I would say it does the equivalent of being hit with someone with the ability to lift 1 ton. As for how frequently,  it would be upon impact unless something happens to increase the stress on the body at which point I will reassess the situation. This could things as basic as shifting rubble (another trying to clear up?) explosions,  any of the many possibilities. 

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I've used two methods to model this in the past.

 

For really heavy weights just apply Constant to the initial attack. For more long-term situations like being pinned in rubble, use Damage over Time with a smaller attack that will eventually chip through the victim's defenses. 

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The book says dropped object deals damage equal to the amount of damage the object would take if it fell.  The damage an object takes is equal to 1DC per 2m of velocity.  The book also recommends that a heavy object does a minimum damage equal to the STR it takes to lift.  So, basically you take the greater of the STR required to lift it, or the v/2 in meters. 

 

Once it hits the first thing I would do is to see if the object survived.  Since the object also takes the damage something with a low DEF may be totally destroyed by the fall.  If the object survives the fall the GM should use his judgment if it causes further damage.  If the object does cause further damage it should probably do damage based on the STR required to lift.  The object could also cause other effects like suffocation depending on the object.  
 

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The book says dropped object deals damage equal to the amount of damage the object would take if it fell.  The damage an object takes is equal to 1DC per 2m of velocity.

 

Yeah but the problem with that approach is that while it sounds tremendously sciencey, it doesn't reflect all the physics involved.  Yes, objects all fall at the same speed (in a vacuum) but a rubber ball falling at 2m velocity and a car falling at 2m velocity are going to do entirely different damage.  I like the way Asperion does it and that's similar to how I have always handled it: a move through by the object at the STR it takes to lift.

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@Christopher R Taylor, you did not read my whole post.  What I said is you take the greater of either the STR required to lift (Asperio’s method) or the V/2.  If you drop an anvil on someone from a mile up it will do a lot more damage than if you drop it from 5 feet above them.  

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 If you drop an anvil on someone from a mile up it will do a lot more damage than if you drop it from 5 feet above them.  

 

Yeah, that's where the move through comes in that I posted.  But the rule is not great, the recommendation (not a rule) is better.  My post was about the rule, and why its not a good one.

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Similar rule that I do not think is a good one is how much damage something does when you hit them with it. Per the rules if you have a 90 STR and hit someone with a Destroyer, you will do 0d6 damage as it takes your entire 90 STR to list the Destroyer. Now while I can understand perhaps some reduced damage and (even more likely) reduced OCV to hit, I can't see it doing no damage despite the fact that it takes your entire STR to lift.

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8 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

The book says dropped object deals damage equal to the amount of damage the object would take if it fell.  The damage an object takes is equal to 1DC per 2m of velocity.  The book also recommends that a heavy object does a minimum damage equal to the STR it takes to lift.  So, basically you take the greater of the STR required to lift it, or the v/2 in meters. 

 

 

Why does that exhaust the space?  Third option:  add the 2 damage aspects.  IOW, if it takes 2d6 to lift, then the total damage is VELO + 2 DCs, up to the max of PD + BODY (per the throwing damage rules).  Your options basically say that the object's mass becomes irrelevant once the velo damage passes the STR to lift...which is generally a trivial amount.  

 

Combining the two is much more in line with throwing damage.  If I have a 40 STR and throw a 50 pound anvil, it does 8d6...because that's the net force involved, between the mass of the anvil and its velocity.  Here, the velo is independent...the "throwing STR" is the gravitational pull of the Earth, which is practically infinite...it's limited basically only by terminal velocity.  It just takes a while to reach it, too.  The velo is the 'excess STR' over and above what's needed to lift it....think about flipping the situation.  A 40 STR character throws a 50 kg cannonball straight up.  How high does it go?  We need its initial velocity.  50 kg requires 5 STR, so there's 7d6 from the velocity.  OK, that means the starting velocity would be 14m...bingo!  

 

And honestly, note that the rule is still ridiculously lax.  Because a 50 kg mass only adds 1d6????  That's lame.

 

3 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

Similar rule that I do not think is a good one is how much damage something does when you hit them with it. Per the rules if you have a 90 STR and hit someone with a Destroyer, you will do 0d6 damage as it takes your entire 90 STR to list the Destroyer. Now while I can understand perhaps some reduced damage and (even more likely) reduced OCV to hit, I can't see it doing no damage despite the fact that it takes your entire STR to lift.

 

Mmm...based on what?  I think there's multiple sections, and I'm suspecting they lead to different answers.  For example, in the Throwing...if we drop it down a bit to a 50 ton tank, something a 90 STR character *can* throw...the throwing rules say the full damage applies.

 

The suggestions WRT heavy mass also say, the apply the damage based on the weight.

 

Basically, the 90 STR can't add more damage from his STR, when he smacks you with the destroyer...but that doesn't mean it does 0 damage.

 

Note that this is also consistent with the Heroic rules for weapons with STR mins.  You can only add damage based on your STR in excess of what's needed to wield the weapon.

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The 5E rules for being crushed under heavy objects are on pp. 99-100 of The Ultimate Brick.

Damage is equal to what would be caused by the STR needed to lift the object. It's inflicted on the Segment the crushing initially happens and then every Turn afterward.

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On 5/1/2024 at 5:05 PM, unclevlad said:

Mmm...based on what?  I think there's multiple sections, and I'm suspecting they lead to different answers.  For example, in the Throwing...if we drop it down a bit to a 50 ton tank, something a 90 STR character *can* throw...the throwing rules say the full damage applies.

 

For throwing yes, but not for hitting. If you were to drop the item on something, it will do weight damage, but if you hit them like it was a club, it will do your STR damage minus the STR Requirement to lift it. Which means if you have a 90 STR and you are hitting someone with something that requires 90 STR to lift then it will do 90 STR minus 90 STR worth of damage, or 0d6. The only advantage is that you keep ahold of the object you are hitting them with.

Edited by Gauntlet
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I sense new combat maneuvers for heavier characters. Not just in superhero settings.

 

An ogre falling on a character from even a modest height sounds like it could cause quite a bit of damage. A giant would be far worse. Remember the scene that happened in one of the Hobbit movies?

 

I guess you could even create a martial art based on this: Throwing Your Weight Around. I leave it up to others to contemplate potential maneuvers that would fit the theme.

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6 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

 

For throwing yes, but not for hitting. If you were to drop the item on something, it will do weight damage, but if you hit them like it was a club, it will do your STR damage minus the STR Requirement to lift it.

 

Not even sure I buy that.  Page cite please?  The objects as weapons section doesn't appear to support this.  It actually goes the other way.  If I can pick up a particularly solid object...say, 1 inch thick solid steel rod stock...with my casual STR, then I get full STR, plus probably a few more for using such a durable object.

 

And it's nonsensical to say you can throw it for more damage than you can get by using it as a club.  

 

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1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not even sure I buy that.  Page cite please?  The objects as weapons section doesn't appear to support this.  It actually goes the other way.  If I can pick up a particularly solid object...say, 1 inch thick solid steel rod stock...with my casual STR, then I get full STR, plus probably a few more for using such a durable object.

 

And it's nonsensical to say you can throw it for more damage than you can get by using it as a club.  

 

 

 

Edited by Gauntlet
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OK, I think the misunderstanding is, this thread's talking the NET damage you get to do.  Yeah, if you can just lift it, then you're not adding anything.

 

Quote

For throwing yes, but not for hitting. If you were to drop the item on something, it will do weight damage, but if you hit them like it was a club, it will do your STR damage minus the STR Requirement to lift it. Which means if you have a 90 STR and you are hitting someone with something that requires 90 STR to lift then it will do 90 STR minus 90 STR worth of damage, or 0d6.

 

So in the example, Grond picks up a bus...a truck's 35 STR, let's just use that.  What you're saying is, he'd be hitting with (90 - 35) == 55 STR, or 11d6...when the example says it's 19...18 from STR, plus a bit more because the bus has so much structure. 

 

The point is, it's still full STR...thrown, or slammed, or used as a club...as long as the object being used can handle it.

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1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Not even sure I buy that.  Page cite please?  The objects as weapons section doesn't appear to support this.  It actually goes the other way.  If I can pick up a particularly solid object...say, 1 inch thick solid steel rod stock...with my casual STR, then I get full STR, plus probably a few more for using such a durable object.

 

And it's nonsensical to say you can throw it for more damage than you can get by using it as a club.  

 

I apologize, I must be referring either to an older version or some type of supplement. I know I read it somewhere, but it definitely is not part of the 6th edition as 6th edition simply gives a OCV Penalty based on the weight of the object being utilized (if it required more than casual STR).

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