Creating Creatures: Top-Down or Bottom-Up?

[DentArthurDent]

How do you create Creatures? 
 

Do you start with the characteristics? OCV and DCs? Written descriptions?

What if you run into conflicts with, for example, Dexterity and DCV? Do you adjust Dexterity and all the associated effects, or just choose what seems to be a good value for DCV and OCV and all the Dexterity based Skills and Powers?
 

How do you handle Mental attacks on something that doesn’t have a “human” mind? Like a sparrow or troll or gorilla? 
 

What about Presence attacks on creatures that just don’t care? Like a fish or golem or cat? Because cats just don’t care. 

 

Having played Hero for decades, I just realized that I’ve created hundreds of NPCs but never a creature from scratch. 😲

[Tech]

I start with stats and adjust them accordingly as needed to fit the need, whether Dex, SPD (that's one of the most important) and so on. Powers are written next, which may influence the stats to be adjusted.

 

I don't worry about mental attacks, I go with the flow of the adventure.
 

"What about Presence attacks on creatures that just don’t care? Like a fish or golem or cat? Because cats just don’t care."    Gotta disagree: fish are easily spooked as are cats. Depends on the type of PRE attack.

 

Eh, this isn't that hard.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I start with the appearance and ecological niche, but then characteristics.

[Rich McGee]

2 hours ago, Tech said:

Gotta disagree: fish are easily spooked as are cats. Depends on the type of PRE attack.

And if you want to attract a cat instead of scaring it off, just run a can opener. 

 

Me, I start with a broad concept (which includes appearance and maybe ecological role, or at least general behavior) and stats come afterward.  Rather like designing a PC, really. 

[Gauntlet]

I usually start with Characteristics as that gives me a general breakdown of the character. Second I go with Powers, and then after that Skills. If they are needed I go with Talents and Perks next, and then do Complications last.

[LoneWolf]

I have to agree with Rich McGee that starting with the concept is the way to go.  Without that how can you figure out anything?  After that I look at what is the defining item for the creature and start with that.  Sometimes that means starting with powers, other times stats come first.  For Example, if I were writing up a ghost I would start with things like desolidification before stats.  If I was writing up something like a cat I will probably start with the stats.  

[Gauntlet]

I would probably say that the best way to do this would depend on how your mind works.

[Ninja-Bear]

I just buy a bestiary and then adjust accordingly. Why do all the work if it’s already done? Besides I wouldn’t know where to start.

[Gauntlet]

45 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I just buy a bestiary and then adjust accordingly. Why do all the work if it’s already done? Besides I wouldn’t know where to start.

 

Cause I got a lot of weird creatures that the Bestiary is not even close to. But if there is one I definitely make an adjustment to rather than creating a new one.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Gauntlet said:

 

Cause I got a lot of weird creatures that the Bestiary is not even close to. But if there is one I definitely make an adjustment to rather than creating a new one.

Yup!

[Gauntlet]

I would have to say that the big thing I do to monsters in the Bestiary is give them some combat skill levels. Usually the way they have them they can't hit the broad side of a barn.
 

Of course, barns in my FH games jump around the whole field and attack with spears.🤪

[Rich McGee]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I just buy a bestiary and then adjust accordingly. Why do all the work if it’s already done?

The usual answers are:

 

1) There's nothing close in a published book and/or

2) One or more players have read all the monster stats every written and metagame that knowledge shamelessly

 

Neither are problems unique to Hero, by any means.  Even D&D with its shelves of monster manuals and supplements over the decades falls prey to them.

[Gauntlet]

8 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I just buy a bestiary and then adjust accordingly. Why do all the work if it’s already done? Besides I wouldn’t know where to start.

 

Cause it's Fun!

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Rich McGee said:

The usual answers are:

 

1) There's nothing close in a published book and/or

2) One or more players have read all the monster stats every written and metagame that knowledge shamelessly

 

Neither are problems unique to Hero, by any means.  Even D&D with its shelves of monster manuals and supplements over the decades falls prey to them.

True, however if you use a book then you have a starting point to create your unique creature. And something I just thought of, in DND they’ll tell you that the stat block is the average creature. So as a GM you are free to adjust up or down or swipe and or delete abilities. No reason the same logic doesn’t apply here. 

[Rich McGee]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

So as a GM you are free to adjust up or down or swipe and or delete abilities.

Sure.  The GM can always do anything they want. 

 

That said, being a GM is an excellent way to learn that just because you CAN do something doesn't always mean you SHOULD.  How's that catchphrase of Peter Parker's go again?   

[DentArthurDent]

On 8/15/2024 at 6:27 PM, Gauntlet said:

Of course, barns in my FH games jump around the whole field and attack with spears.🤪

I have visions of barns galumphing around a field like enormous elephant seals. Then pausing as they shiver slightly before several boards rip themselves free and hurtle toward the party.