Campaign Everyman Skills

[Doc Democracy]

7 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

That way the everyman skills would be based on the character's background.

 

The biggest issue with that is that they are no longer "everyman" skills.  They are just some additional points that do not perform any setting role (which, for me, is the reason for their existence).

Edited September 9 by Doc Democracy

[Gauntlet]

18 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

The biggest issue with that is that they are no longer "everyman" skills.  They are just some additional points that do not perform any setting role (which, for ne, is the reason for their existence).

 

True, but is there really something like Everyman Skills that actually exist?

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

The biggest issue with that is that they are no longer "everyman" skills.  They are just some additional points that do not perform any setting role (which, for ne, is the reason for their existence).

 

The rules themselves negate this notion of a "setting skill" for the most part.  

 

The reason for calling something an everyman skill is the same as for saying PCs don't...or at least shouldn't...have to pay points for a flashlight.

[LoneWolf]

An everyman skill represents something that most adult characters should be able to perform out of combat.  With the exception of the 11 or less PS these skills are only familiarity. 

 

Just about every adult that does not have some sort of physical disability is going to be able to climb onto a short 1M obstacle that is not so smooth it does not have any thing that can be used as a handhold given enough time.  Most adults can search an unfamiliar kitchen and find a plate in a cupboard.   That is why both climbing and concealment are everyman skills. I could go down the list of everyman skills and find those types of examples.

 

The book says you can do those type things without needing the skill.  The reason you can do that is because they are everyman skills.  The book may not explicitly say so, but they do list them as everyman skills. 
 

Using CPR as an example is confusing the issue.

[Doc Democracy]

7 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

True, but is there really something like Everyman Skills that actually exist?

 

Everyman skills exist in real-life, reflecting that society.  Everyman skills in literature are probably much more prominent, saying things about those societies.

 

So, in modern day London I expect "everyone" to be able to drive a manual gear car.  It was not true 75 years ago and in 25 years, I don't expect that to be the case. In 12th century England "everyone" was able to draw and fire a longbow.  In the "wild west", "everyone" could ride a horse. In Bridgerton England "everyone" has combat conversation. In WWII stories "everyone" has military training and can fire semi-automatic weapons. In Glorantha "everyone" can cast spirit magic. 

 

I think there are benefits, when designing a setting, to think what the everyman skills are for particular populations, as it defines the things the life experience of the general population.

 

 

[unclevlad]

13 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

So, in modern day London I expect "everyone" to be able to drive a manual gear car.  It was not true 75 years ago and in 25 years, I don't expect that to be the case.

 

That might be true in Europe.  It's NOT true in the US today, particularly if you sort by age group...35 and under who've ever driven manual?  Uncommon at best.

 

13 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

In 12th century England "everyone" was able to draw and fire a longbow. 

 

The peasant levies?  That'd apply to the village populations, but by and large, the townsfolk weren't included, I don't believe.  But...this would be a WF.  The rules don't give WFs as Everyman, and WF only has a Yes/No level anyway.  Consider, for several centuries, some form of sword proficiency was expected of a 'gentleman.'  So in Shakespearean England, any *man* with a title...any son of even landed gentry...would probably get the basics of swordplay.  

 

But heck, IMO, you're making MY point.  "Everyone" is meaningless.  The narrow interpretation of what can or can't be an 'everyman skill' is excessively pedantic.  A WF is 1 point...if your background is 3rd son of landed gentry, fine, take take a WF with a lighter sword for 0 points.  Stay flexible, consider the context.

 

13 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

I think there are benefits, when designing a setting, to think what the everyman skills are for particular populations, as it defines the things the life experience of the general population.

 

I agree with the point about 'particular populations.'  That's a key to the concept, particularly taking 'everyman' to mean 'anyone can, and a high percentage do.'  I don't personally think it's worth defining in advance...unless it really is important and unusual.  If the setting's rural Ireland, then "Identify fairy sign" might well be an everyman skill...cuz missing them can be quite dangerous.

[Doc Democracy]

23 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

I agree with the point about 'particular populations.'  That's a key to the concept, particularly taking 'everyman' to mean 'anyone can, and a high percentage do.'  I don't personally think it's worth defining in advance...unless it really is important and unusual.

 

And I think that is what is causing the circular argument.  I don't think the rules advocate for a generic list for every population, in every genre, in every setting to be the same.  The everyman list is a (very small) addition in how populations might be described and make in game differences to player character backgrounds.

 

In Heroquest Glorantha, Sartarite characters had a minor skill in walking in snowshoes.  It provided a bit of colour, an insight that the hills in Sartar were often deep with snow, and if you came from there you would move more quickly in winter than Lunar invaders. It was a Sartarite everyman skill.

[Gauntlet]

Though I will have to be honest, I extremely rarely utilize everyman skills with the exception of my character's primary language, and most of the time the players around me don't use them either. While I know that it will not be the same with everyone else, I am wondering what the need for them is.

[Doc Democracy]

The rules provide a toolkit, you use stuff or you don't.  I will bet there are games that don't use power pools, and games that don't use mental powers, and games that don't use the SPD chart.  I remember one game where I effectively did not use SPD at all.  Everyone had SPD 3.

 

7 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

While I know that it will not be the same with everyone else, I am wondering what the need for them is.

 

The need for them is to provide that option for the people that like them, that see a value in a particular game. Just like everything else.

[LoneWolf]

16 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

Though I will have to be honest, I extremely rarely utilize everyman skills with the exception of my character's primary language, and most of the time the players around me don't use them either. While I know that it will not be the same with everyone else, I am wondering what the need for them is.

 

I have played in your games and we both encourage skills.  Most of the time there is at least one character in the group with the full skill.  In those circumstances the 8 or less roll of the everyman skill is largely irrelevant.

 

You may not explicitly call for rolls on everyman skills, but the character in the game use them a lot.  For a modern campaign TF with small motorized vehicles is an everyman skill.  The only characters that have had problems with cars are those that have some sort of complication that would limit their use.   You have also had us make deduction rolls when the party is completely stumped even when none of the characters had deduction.  You have also allowed characters to make a conversation roll to try and determine if someone is lying.  These are all examples of everyman skills. 

 

Everyman skills give the GM a framework of what most characters should be able to do.  In most cases it is ignored because these are also things we ourselves can do. It also gives the GM a tool to alter thing to fit the campaign. By altering the list of everyman skills, the GM can make fundamental changes in the setting. The book gives computer programing as an everyman skill in science fiction campaigns. Adding survival to the list for a post holocaust setting has been brought up in the thread.  Removing conversation could create a world where people have been conditioned to always tell the truth and have no concept of lying.  That is what this thread was originally about. The OP asked the question what type of world would have interrogation as an everyman skill.  
 

 

[Doc Democracy]

28 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

You have also had us make deduction rolls when the party is completely stumped even when none of the characters had deduction.  You have also allowed characters to make a conversation roll to try and determine if someone is lying.  These are all examples of everyman skills. 

 

Everyman skills give the GM a framework of what most characters should be able to do.

 

Good examples I think and a good example of how an experienced GM does these things without reference to actual book rules, it just makes sense for a decent game.  But rulebook writers need to write for people who may not have the same depth of experience and need prompts on the kind of thing they might consider in running their game.

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

You may not explicitly call for rolls on everyman skills, but the character in the game use them a lot.  For a modern campaign TF with small motorized vehicles is an everyman skill.  The only characters that have had problems with cars are those that have some sort of complication that would limit their use.   You have also had us make deduction rolls when the party is completely stumped even when none of the characters had deduction.  You have also allowed characters to make a conversation roll to try and determine if someone is lying.  These are all examples of everyman skills. 

 

I guess I use them more than I thought I did. Good to know.