champions Using Hit Locations along with other damage increasing rules in a Champions Game.

[Gauntlet]

Hey All, what would you all think about the effects of utilizing full hit locations, disabling, impairing, and other increased damage options in a Champions game?

 

 

Edited September 27 by Gauntlet

[Christopher R Taylor]

Expect a lot of fatalities and at least one character to change to a healer.

[Grailknight]

While I wouldn't expect a large increase of lethality, you're effectively applying the STUN Lotto to Normal Attacks. Expect more one-shot KO's and plenty of attacks that do nothing but knockback.

Edited September 27 by Grailknight

[Gauntlet]

I am using it for a Dark, yet Full Champions game where the IHA has completely taken over the United States of America and mutants are like Jews in Nazi Germany. 

[Hugh Neilson]

Penalty skill levels to offset called shots are trivially cheap in Champions, compared to the cost of doubling your damage classes.

 

Growth disappears as a power, since no one can afford a low DCV making head shots practical.

[LoneWolf]

3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Expect a lot of fatalities and at least one character to change to a healer.

 

We already have healer in the party.   

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Penalty skill levels to offset called shots are trivially cheap in Champions, compared to the cost of doubling your damage classes.

 

Growth disappears as a power, since no one can afford a low DCV making head shots practical.

 

One of the reasons I do not allow Penalty Skill Levels in any game.

[Grailknight]

On 9/27/2024 at 4:55 PM, Gauntlet said:

I am using it for a Dark, yet Full Champions game where the IHA has completely taken over the United States of America and mutants are like Jews in Nazi Germany. 

 

Out of curiosity, where do Canada and Mexico stand? What about the rest of the Americas and the Carribean? Does any nuclear power support the mutants?

[Gauntlet]

The United States does have a lot of commercialization they have used for their actions against mutants (and any other powered individuals that are not directly with the government and in way, shape, or form support mutants). They are showing being mutant as a disease in which causes the individual to go crazy. If you are powerful, or if you resist, they will hospitalize you. Of course, their hospitals for the genetically challenged are actually prisons and treat their patients in ways very similar to concentration camps (preforming a number of tests that cause pain and in almost all cases, death). Due to their military and nuclear power, other nations have left them alone, accepting their statement that they are only trying to help those with the mutant disease. Some other nations may have at times complained, like Canada and Mexico, but not enough to cause any real problems (and the United States has sent people to cause supposed "Mutant" problems in both of those countries). At the same time, mutants are completely blocked from leaving the United States (attempts to do so automatically cause the mutant to be submitted into a Mutant Hospital, and many times their families, mutant or not, as well).

Edited October 1 by Gauntlet

[Christopher R Taylor]

I ran exactly one session where all the optional rules were turned on, because the team was dimension hopping and went to "real world".  Long Term END, bleeding, hit locations, impairing wounds, the lot.  The first battle ended with bodies all over the floor.  What used to be a pretty good attack was murdering people.  The heroes got torn up really badly and had to hide out somewhere to heal and rest up.  Hero with everything turned on is lethal, it requires people to keep their head down, fight defensively, use cover, etc.

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I ran exactly one session where all the optional rules were turned on, because the team was dimension hopping and went to "real world".  Long Term END, bleeding, hit locations, impairing wounds, the lot.  The first battle ended with bodies all over the floor.  What used to be a pretty good attack was murdering people.  The heroes got torn up really badly and had to hide out somewhere to heal and rest up.  Hero with everything turned on is lethal, it requires people to keep their head down, fight defensively, use cover, etc.

 

Yes it is, which is exactly what I am going for with my IHAUSA Game.

[dmjalund]

what would be the point cost of not having hit locations?

Edited October 1 by dmjalund

[LoneWolf]

10 points is what the book says, but it is an automation power.   

 

Hit locations when rolled randomly often end up reducing the damage.  It is when you allow called shots that they can get deadly.  A good strategy for a campaign with hit locations is to do a called shot chest if you are using a killing attack.  The penalty is only -3 but it has a x3 stun multiple.  If you are using a normal attack, it ensures you do not reduce the damage.   

Edited October 1 by LoneWolf

[starblaze]

I also find along with the game being more lethal combat tends to get slower when you use the more realistic rules.

[Gauntlet]

9 hours ago, dmjalund said:

what would be the point cost of not having hit locations?

 

It cost 10 points for no hit locations and usually is only utilized on automations, but definitely depends on the game.

 

 

5 minutes ago, starblaze said:

I also find along with the game being more lethal combat tends to get slower when you use the more realistic rules.

 

It definitely can so you will want to use it with experienced players as it will confuse most if not all newbies.

Edited October 1 by Gauntlet

[death tribble]

I would not use it as there are always people who would want to cripple or instantly kill a target and I do not like that mindset

[Gauntlet]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

I would not use it as there are always people who would want to cripple or instantly kill a target and I do not like that mindset

 

In most games I would agree with you, but there are the occasional ones that have the rather dark tone.

[death tribble]

It's the players not the tone that concern me. Some have to meta

[LoneWolf]

I usually find it better to avoid those type of players.  Even without the more lethal rules being used those type of players often create problems.  

[Gauntlet]

On the other side, I also have run a S.T.U.P.I.D. campaign (which stands for Super Twirps Undertaking Personally Injurious Duties). It is a game similar to The Tick universe. No attacks do BODY Damage there and the characters don't even have a BODY Characteristic.

[Gauntlet]

Maybe my S.T.U.P.I.D. Campaign is one I should think about running remote, perhaps on Discord.

 

If you are interested let me know.

Edited October 6 by Gauntlet

[Rapier]

Logistically, this is going to have a significant impact on your game. Unless you are using an electronic tool or VTT setup, you are going to SIGNIFICANTLY slow down combat. You are looking to add another roll and a few calculations to every attack. Even in FH, we rarely utilise the Hit Locations and Sectional Defence because, in person, it slows down combat so much.

 

You are going to see a lot of yo-yo characters who are up one round and down the next, only to stand back the next. You are adding a lot of lethality which isn't necessarily appropriate for a superheroic game. That is more of a street-level type game, which is ok, but you still need to overcome the logistical overhead.

 

You are also going to see character shift over to a more "game" archetype. You will get a buffer, a healer, a tank, etc.

 

It is possible, but it is going to significantly change your game and how it operates.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Logistically, this is going to have a significant impact on your game. Unless you are using an electronic tool or VTT setup, you are going to SIGNIFICANTLY slow down combat. You are looking to add another roll and a few calculations to every attack. Even in FH, we rarely utilise the Hit Locations and Sectional Defence because, in person, it slows down combat so much.

 

It honestly doesn't make that much difference if you get used to it.  Its a bit slow at first while people figure out what is happening and how to do it, and the GM gets used to the rules, but in time you get smooth and it moves along well (and is much more dramatic).

[LoneWolf]

There is some slow down, but it is really not that bad.  If the campaign has a lot of killing attacks, it is not much different than rolling the stun multiple.  If the players know the chart well enough or it is on the character sheet it takes an extra second or two to find the stun multiple.   The more you use these rules the less the delay becomes.    

 

In 6th edition the big thing about the hit location is that it increases the stun multiple of killing attacks back to what it was in the previous editions.  In previous editions outside of called shots using hit locations actually tends to reduce the damage characters take.   

 

For killing attacks with hit locations, you have a 26% chance of getting a stun multiple over 3, a 37% chance of getting 3 and a 37% chance of getting lower than 3.  Without hit locations you have a 33% chance of getting a stun multiple over 3 a 17% chance of getting 3 and a 50% chance of getting lower than 3.  Using the hit locations for a killing attack means you get more damage at or below the median damage.  

 

For normal attacks it actually reduces the odds slightly more.  You still have a 26% of increased damage, a 44% chance of no modifications and a 30% chance of decreased damage.  This is also the chances of the body being increased or decreased.   
 

[Grailknight]

After giving it some thought, I wouldn't use the Hit Locations in this particular campaign.

 

Hit locations will make the game more volatile. The damage will average out, but it will come up against the critical hits problem. Namely, there's an infinite horde of NPC's and only a finite number of PC's and being Stunned will be much more common than in a standard campaign. It doesn't matter how many NPCs are taken down by those 12-13 rolls but being Stunned in a campaign where defeat means being killed outright or imprisoned with torture by the authorities could lead to much greater PC character turnover and will definitely make the PCs less heroic because they can't afford to lose.