Dynamic HTH Combat

[Nelijal]

Perhaps we're carrying old bad habits from our D&D days, but my group has very static HTH combat--each character is glued to a single hex while slugging it out. In real life, most any kind of fight is very dynamic, with the participants moving quite a bit.

 

Note that I'm referring to Heroic level play, FH in our current game.

 

My intention was to offer some incentives for characters who kept on their toes and moved during combat in order to get/keep an advantage on their opponents. So far I haven't done this, one reason being that I couldn't come up with any ideas.

 

All I've come up with so far is to offer additional modifiers, nominally a +1 DCV, for judicious use of side-stepping or backing away from an attack. This would be in addition to the normal Maneuver bonuses: +3 DCV for a Dodge, +4 DCV for a Dodge while stepping back one hex. There should also be an offensive version of this, say a +1 OCV for pressing the attack into your opponent's hex.

 

Am I thinking too hard, or is this viable? Should these things just fall into the category of circumstantial combat modifiers to be assigned on a case by case basis? I do concede that the one main thing I have NOT done to encourage this behavior is to have the NPCs be more dynamic--it's my bad habit, too.

 

My brain cell appreciates your input.

[Monolith]

Re: Dynamic HTH Combat

 

Originally posted by Nelijal

There should also be an offensive version of this, say a +1 OCV for pressing the attack into your opponent's hex.

The problem here is that there a combat maneuvers that add bonuses to the character for NOT moving (Set & Brace being some examples here).

 

Am I thinking too hard, or is this viable? Should these things just fall into the category of circumstantial combat modifiers to be assigned on a case by case basis? I do concede that the one main thing I have NOT done to encourage this behavior is to have the NPCs be more dynamic--it's my bad habit, too.

Personally, I think if you want the heroes to move in the combat you should make the villains stationary and force the heroes to go to them. Put the orcs behind boulders that the heroes have to move around (or over). Having creatures hanging from trees that force the heroes to go into the trees to combat. If you are always having the badguys running to the heroes, there is not reason for them to move.

[Derek Hiemforth]

I think you have some interesting ideas... worth trying out. I'd expand your DCV bonus idea to saying that a character gets +1 DCV on the first attack against him if he has either moved out of the attacker's hex to an adjacent hex, or moved from one adjacent hex to another (changing the angle of attack). Likewise, an attacker would get a +1 OCV on their first H-T-H attack after entering a defender's hex, if he ended a previous Phase in an adjacent hex. (So he wouldn't get the bonus just for making the first attack of a melee, but if he had already been fighting this opponent and presses the attack against him, then he does get the bonus.)

 

Also, Acrobatics can get you OCV bonus for surprise maneuvers. You could alter that slightly, and rule that a melee participant that moves at least one hex and combines it with a successful Acrobatics roll can get either +1 OCV on the first melee attack they make afterwards, or a +1 DCV against the first melee attack against them afterwards (their choice).

 

You could also rule that Tactics could be used the same way as Acrobatics described above (with the movements simulating skillful feints and blind-side attacks rather than agility).

[Toadmaster]

A couple of thoughts, one is the hexes are 2 meters (6 feet) side stepping and such are likely to be contained within the hex, so while on the game map they may look stationary that really is not the case, as already mentioned there are penalties for really just standing still (brace, set, concentration etc). The second is are you using the multiple attackers bonuses, these can result in a much more dynamic situation as PC's manuever to get multiple attackers on one enemy or try to prevent the enemy from doing the same to them, -1DCV for each attacker after the first adds up fast. Using sweep also affects how fighters line up, once sweep takes out a few targets at one time, opponents are less likely to allow themselves to be lined up to allow sweep manuevers.

 

I have thought some of GURPS' manuevers such as feint would be useful for HERO, some of the ideas mentioned could be useful in a limited fashion, tied in with martial arts, tactics, WF etc.

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by Toadmaster

A couple of thoughts, one is the hexes are 2 meters (6 feet) side stepping and such are likely to be contained within the hex, so while on the game map they may look stationary that really is not the case, as already mentioned there are penalties for really just standing still (brace, set, concentration etc

I had considered this, and obviously that's what's going on during a Dodge Maneuver. What I'm thinking about is that people in real fights move around A LOT. Boxing, Karate, or just a street brawl, the participants are all over the place.

 

To counter the fact that moving an entire hex is a lot in the context of combat, I had also thought of allowing 1/2 hex moves, but that would require a great deal of forethought to make sure it didn't create a pure mess, or leave huge loopholes for people to try and take advantage of. I'm not quite ready to take HERO to the level of Advanced Squad Leader.

[BlueBuddha]

The way I see it, people move around in combat for reasons. I'm not sure exactly what those are, having not ever been in a fight. I think moving around in general, keeping on your toes makes you harder to hit, and the natural flow of battle moves you naturaly.

 

You could allow uses of Int rolls, tactics rolls, or good roleplaying to discover a combat advantage or disadvantage of some sort to the PC. Looking at the combat modifiers table, there's Concealment, Environmental Conditions, and Multiple attackers penalties, all of which can be capitalized on, or avoided by moving around to gain or remove the bonuses or penalties. Same with DCV: being attacked from behind, Fighting in a cluttered or cramped area, in the water, on a narrow surface; on ice, mud, or other slippery surface; and multiple attackers penalties again. You can gain/remove any of these penalties by moving around in combat, or forcing your opponent into them.

 

It may weigh down you combat with detail and lengthy descriptions and even more dice rolling, but I suggest using these modifiers as much as possible, forcing your PCs to think about where they're standing. Backing up against a wall, putting a pillar between them and their opponent, puting the sun in their eyes, steer them onto a ledge or slippery area. Of course, you have to make sure your players know this stuff is around and available as combat modifiers for them to use it.

 

Also, I like your idea of pressing/retreating in a melee. I think a +1 DCV/-1 OCV for a retreat, switched for a press might be appropriate. If you press, but your opponent doesn't retreat, you'll find yourself with possible penalties on medium or long weapons, or a sudden opportunity to grapple.

 

BlueBuddha

[LordGhee]

My GAWD man you have somthing, that press and retreat rule I like! I have run ten FH campains since the first book has been out and if you teach them to be dynamic by having your villians be dynamic the players will be.

A good example is have the bad guys move to the heros unshielded side and of course the back for the bonus.

 

example players have used.

 

player one I move two his unshielded side.

 

GM Lord ghee, he counters.

 

Player one good now his shield is out of the way so the elf has a better shot on him.

 

Percetion is also under used in games.

players learn that in my game if you are engeged with an oppent you will be at negatives to see actions around you.

so bowmen can get those 1/2 dcv shots in.

Also players learn that if you in the secound rank with a long weapon held an action and wiated untill you percived the fact that the enemy is not percieving them and bang they get a bonus shot. this caused player to declare that they wher holding and looking around (1/2 action full per with +1).

Generally in combat I applied a -3 mod to any shill trying to be done- (Magnum PI - Pick the lock, do not look at the dogs, I looked at the dogs- GM that a minus 3 ) including perception in combat.

in general wacth a good movie fight then figure out how it was done in FH. Example Gene Kelly in the three Musketteers he was a moble dude.

 

hope this helps alittle.

Lord Ghee

[Old Man]

Originally posted by LordGhee

in general wacth a good movie fight then figure out how it was done in FH. Example Gene Kelly in the three Musketteers he was a moble dude.

 

 

You could also say that when a character gets stunned he staggers back a hex.

 

I would recommend watching Musa:The Warrior. It has dynamic fight scenes without the acrobatics employed by Jackie Chan and Jet Li.