Dex cost

[ritter]

I was looking at the cost of Dex and it seemed a bit low to me for what it gives you. I was thinking about raising it, but was not sure it was more balancing to raise the cost to 4 or 5. What does everyone think is a fair cost?

[Chaosliege]

Well, IMO, STR, DEX, and CON are all overpowered. I would have raised the cost on all three of them. I didn't make the game, so I play it the way it is made and do my best to control the the posible abuse.

[Starcorp Man]

I really don't see a problem with the cost, if you maintain other campaign requirements and maximums it should impact anything.

 

Con, overpowered?

[misterdeath]

I'd add Int to that too, since most of the skills are based off of it, plus it effects Perception. And Pre, because it's oh so useful in Pre Attacks (make the attack 0 phase, make the bad guy hesitate, you go first--beats Lightning Reflexes, yes?)

 

But, maybe that means that BOD, EGO, and COM are just woefully underpowered, and everything else is OK.

 

Much maligned Fuzion took Str and made it's net cost of 2, and removed most of the figured characteristics.

 

Took Dex and made it a 4, then divided it into OCV (Spd figured) and DCV (skills figured).

 

Con and Bod were left alone, although the figured characteristics were switched around some (Bod became much more useful).

 

Int was raised to 2. Ego was left alone, but a new figured was added.

 

It seemed to have good play balance, although there were other issues with the system.

 

D

[Ghost Archer]

In all the years I've played and all the characters I have built, I have never once considered altering the cost of any characteristic. I have never considered one 'more cost efficient' then any other. I am beginning to think there's something wrong with my perception.

[Gary]

Most primary characteristics are underpriced, except in NCM games. Numbers in parenthesis are my estimated value for each feature.

 

5 pts Str gives you

5.5 pts figured, (5.5 pts)

1" leap, (1 pt)

1 DC, (3 pts)

lifting, escape, casual str, etc. (1-2 pts)

Total of about 10 pts value for 5 pts.

 

3 pts of dex gives you:

.3 spd (3 pts)

+1 OCV all attacks (5 pts)

+1 DCV (5 pts)

+3 lightning reflexes (4.5 pts)

+3/5 agility skill rolls (3 pts)

Total of about 20 pts value for a cost of 9

 

5 pts of con gives you:

10.5 figured (10.5 pts)

+5 to resist stunning (5 pts)

+1 con rolls (1-2 pts)

About 17 pts value for a cost of 10

 

5 pts of int gives you:

+1 perception rolls (3 pts)

+1 intellect skills (5 pts)

+1 int rolls (2 pts)

About 10 pts value for the cost of 5

 

3 pts of ego gives you:

+1 OECV (5 pts for mentallist or 0 pts for others)

+1 DECV (5 pts)

+1 ego rolls (3 pts)

+3 mental defense except vs ego blast (2.5 pts)

Misc such as extra mental defense, ability to escape mental entangles, ability to resist presence attacks if higher than presense, etc (1-2 pts)

Total about 12 pts value for non mentallist or 17 pts value for mentallist for the cost of 6 pts.

 

5 pts of pre gives you:

+1 interaction skills (5 pts)

+5 pre offense and pre defense (5 pts)

Total 10 pts value for a cost of 5 pts.

[JohnTaber]

Great analysis Gary...nice...

[slaughterj]

Yep, DEX is undercosted, I've as much as doubled it in one campaign, and it was still a good buy. Just on Gary's analysis alone, you see it would be cost-beneficial even at double the cost, and that doesn't take into account some of the "soft" effects, like the fact that it affects your DCV when surprised (unlike CSLs), affects your base OCV for hitting one foe into another (unlike CSLs), affects your DCV while dodging (unlike CSLs), affects your DCV against all types of attacks (unlike CSLs but for the DCV-only CSLs), etc.

 

To combat some of these effects, I often will allow characters to apply their applicable CSLs to DCV when dodging (e.g., if they have a sword in hand, then all swords and melee levels can be added to DCV), else there is even more impetus to get DEX over CSLs. Further, I'll let characters apply their "unused" CSLs for the same reason (e.g., if a character is in the midst of melee, but throws a dagger at someone (thus is doing a ranged attack), I'll let them still apply their melee levels (i.e., 5pt or even 3pt swords if they have a sword out) to their melee DCV).

[misterdeath]

Thanks Gary.

 

If you're using the same scale, 10 points spent.

 

Then 10 pts of Str gives 20 points of effect.

9 Points of Dex gives 20 points of effect.

10 points of Con gives 17 points of effect.

10 points of Int gives 20 points of effect.

10 points of Ego gives 20 points of effect.

10 points of Pre gives 20 points of effect.

 

Hmmm, seems like maybe they're all reasonably balanced. Con might be a little underpriced, and Dex might be slightly overpriced, but all in all, they seem to balance pretty well.

 

The problem is that figured characteristics are too expensive for what you get, in relation to the price of base characteristics.

 

It's almost always cheaper to buy more Con, instead of End and Rec. Ditto for Str and PD and Stun.

 

You could double all the costs of primary characteristics, make 20 points of cost give 20 points of benefit. That's pretty much what Fuzion did.

 

You could cut the price of all the figured characteristics in half. (and throw in skill levels while you're at it)

 

Or, you can leave the whole thing alone, and realize that these issues are in play, and balance accordingly.

 

It's probably easier to justify doing the latter to most people. Just realize there's an issue and don't let it become one in play.

 

D

[Chaosliege]

I was thinking less about every ability you gain and more about the abilities you gain that are almost always used. I mean things that other characters would more than likely buy anyway.

 

I'll start with STR

+10 STR gives you

+2 PD; 2 points

+2 Rec; 4 points

+5 stun; 5 points

 

On top of this you get +2d6 attack

 

Why is CON over powered?

+10 Con; 20 points

+2 ED; 2 points

+2 REC; 4 points

+5 Stun; 5 points

+20 END; 10 points

 

Add to this the fact that CON is what determines whether you get stuned or not.

 

As for DEX

 

Well, first considering almost noone out there plays with less than a 4 SPD, every point of DEX only costs 2 points because you gain 1 point in SPD up to 30 DEX. Then consider that it only costs 1 point more than an overall combat skill level to have +1 OCV AND DCV. Then figure That DEX also determines who gets the first shot.

 

Now some people might say that all of the characteristics give benifits beyond what they cost. This is true, but most people will not buy up thier EGO unless they are a mentalist because it doesn't do enough. The top three are so powerful because they give things that almost everyboby uses anyway.

 

When it's cheaper to make a Brick/Energy Projector than it is to make just an Energy Projector, there's something unballenced.

[ryusen]

I had looked at it only from a figured cha pov, at that rate con and str are the most cost effective stats. On the overall whole, a character with well balanced cha will spend more for them than his/her powers (assuming a moderate point game). The key is that everyone is balanced soemhow. I think changing th epoint cost of the cha, will just add more confusion, unless you are trying to gear the game for some specific type of cha level.

[Zaratustra]

Of course, there's always the option of completely detaching primary and figured characteristics. It raises an uproar on the purist crowds, but it eases calculations and replaces the old figured cha discussions by entirely new ones.