Susano Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Which is great from the perspective of someone who had that much to say from the outset. You cut up the whole work to publish it. But then' date=' because it succeeded publishers have started saying write this much every time even if the story doesn't merit it, or would work better as one volume, or a series of shorter format stories.[/quote'] Yes, I've heard that one of the first questions is "can this be a trilogy" since the idea is to suck in the readers with the first book and then get them to buy books 2 and 3 (or 4, 5, 6, and....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I'm finding myself reading a lot of short stories and collections lately. It's hard for me to invest the time in a 600 page novel these days. But a 50 page short story? Even if I don't like it, I haven't wasted a ton of time or energy on it. The downside is, if you really like it then it can be over too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I'm finding myself reading a lot of short stories and collections lately. It's hard for me to invest the time in a 600 page novel these days. But a 50 page short story? Even if I don't like it' date=' I haven't wasted a ton of time or energy on it.[/quote'] Spend on hour on the train coming home and 30 minutes on the bike each morning. 600 page novels are good for that sort of thing. The downside is' date=' if you really like it then it can be over too quickly.[/quote'] Wow... my reply meter just overloaded with a straight line like that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I cannot really talk too much about time investment - I am on page 670 of Anathema by Neal Stephenson and enjoying it. A doorstop with poor editing but even so I have been able to read it on the train to and from work in 50 page chunks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Here are some interesting comments on the length of SF & fantasy novels from Charles Stross. If you like his novels, then you'll definitely want to bookmark his blog; not just to stay informed on his writing (he's...fast) but because some of his blog entries are as entertaining as his fiction. I'm hooked -- if Stross writes it, I read it. The paperback of The Revolution Business is on its way, as well as the 3rd 'Laundy' novel (which probably won't be trilogy) and his sequel to Halting State. So I'll have Stross novels to write up in this thread, Real Soon Now! Don't look at me, Xavier Onassiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Halting State was a really great read. Can't wait to see the sequel. And for those who like trilogies, I found out Elizabeth Moon's going to expand on her Deed of Paksinarrion with a new book due this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Here are some interesting comments on the length of SF & fantasy novels from Charles Stross. If you like his novels, then you'll definitely want to bookmark his blog; not just to stay informed on his writing (he's...fast) but because some of his blog entries are as entertaining as his fiction. I'm hooked -- if Stross writes it, I read it. The paperback of The Revolution Business is on its way, as well as the 3rd 'Laundy' novel (which probably won't be trilogy) and his sequel to Halting State. So I'll have Stross novels to write up in this thread, Real Soon Now! Don't look at me, Xavier Onassiss His comments were an interesting read and make sense. But... His comments on mystery novels aren't correct. In the 1960's they generally ran 150 to 170 pages. Today they tend to run 240+. And the more complex crime novels can top 400 pages. Other than that, I found it enlightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I liked Soon I Will Be Invincible myself' date=' minding it to be a fun romp. And to be fair, it's also Grossman's first book.[/quote'] you're right, it's not that bad, it just could have been something...beyond! you know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Here's an example of what I want to read: 1. Take Harn 2. Remove Annoying Tolkein Elements 3. Rationalize Religion 4. Integrate Subtle Noir/Hardboiled Sensibilities 5. Style ala James Ellroy/Dashiell Hammett A series of short stories linked by character, theme, or plot; or a dark opera of the kaldoric succession crisis of shakespearean magnitude would do it. Ha! nothing less will do!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Covenent's deal is that' date=' throughout most of the trilogy, he's [b']certain[/b] that he's in a fever dream. He does horrible things (like raping Lena) because... well, he's in a dream. Who hasn't done things in a dream that they'd never even consider in the real world? He believes that his actions are without consequence. He just lets everyone else drag him along because he feels that he has no investment in the world -- it's all just a soap bubble that will pop the minute he wakes up. This world is fake, but in the real world he knows that he's just suffered a terrible accident, so he's less concerned about what happens to these dream-figments than he is about waking up so that he can, you know, call for an ambulance or something. But along the way, he begins losing his conviction that The Land is just a figment of his imagination. He witnesses acts of amazing heroism and sacrifice, as well as great depravity, and it starts to have an effect on him. He learns that even if The Land isn't real, it's still important, and what he does in it is also important. By the end of the third book, he's willing to make his own sacrifice to save it (even though he's still not 100% convinced that it's not just a dream). It helps to think of The Land and all its people as metaphor, as splintered aspects of Covenent's own personality (which ties into the "Is this really real or just my brain making it all up?" aspect of Covenent's journey). Lord Foul is so powerful in part because he represents the most dominant part of Covenent -- his own despair. And his eventual victory over Lord Foul is actually a victory over himself. He embraces those aspects of his own personality that are good (Morham's resolute steadfastness, Lena's unconditional love, Foamfollower's unquenchable joy, and so forth) and rejects the despair that has ruled his life for years. But, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they have to like the book. It's certainly not for everyone. I'm just suggesting that there's another way to read it, which makes sense of the question, "Why's Covenent such a little c***? I know, but I like to believe that if I found myself in the same situation I would be at least a little more heroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... you're right' date=' it's not that bad, it just could have been something...beyond! you know what I mean?[/quote'] I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Read Dean Koontz's last Frankenstien book Dead and Alive. I found it lacking somehow. Victor Frankenstein is punished but not by the heroes. And it looks like there might be a continuing series out of this. I think this is going to be the last Koontz book I will read. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Read Dean Koontz's last Frankenstien book Dead and Alive. I found it lacking somehow. Victor Frankenstein is punished but not by the heroes. And it looks like there might be a continuing series out of this. I think this is going to be the last Koontz book I will read. CES I couldn't even finish the first one. Found his style of writing to be just... blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I couldn't even finish the first one. Found his style of writing to be just... blah. The only Koontz book I remember reading had something to do with a genetically modified dog that had human intelligence and his "rival" a kind of hybrid baboon killing machine. I really liked that book a lot, a bona fide NO Prize to anyone who comes up with the title of this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... The only Koontz book I remember reading had something to do with a genetically modified dog that had human intelligence and his "rival" a kind of hybrid baboon killing machine. I really liked that book a lot' date=' a bona fide NO Prize to anyone who comes up with the title of this book.[/quote'] Watchers. I haven't read any Koontz. I web-search therefore I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I can lay out the plot of every Koontz book ever written: There is a guy and a girl, they'll hook up (if they aren't already a couple), there is a kid/elderly/handicapped/animal that will get "adopted" by guy and girl, the bad guys will lose, and the good guys will live happily ever after. Vowed a long time ago to leave his books alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I know' date=' but I like to believe that if I found myself in the same situation I would be at least a little more heroic.[/quote'] Oh yeah, for sure. But again, it helps if you think of Covenent not as the hero of the story, but as the POV character. He's surrounded by the heroes (Mhoram, Foamfollower, Bannor, etc), but he himself is just along for the ride. People keep expecting him to be the hero, and he's always like, "Nah uh! Not my problem!" I dunno. I find that particular idea kinda refreshing. I've read a ton of "Nobody gets told he's the chosen one, and he jumps into the role and suddenly he's a great warrior and leader of men" books. I liked the whole "Nobody gets told he's the chosen one, and he tells everyone to go screw themselves 'cause he ain't getting involved in any of this weird magic crap." But, you know, that's just me. I'm contrary that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I couldn't even finish the first one. Found his style of writing to be just... blah. Kevin Anderson cowrote the first, Ed Gorman was on the second, and he wrote the third but I think Katrina stopped publication since it was set in New Orleans. The third part is a letdown CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I can lay out the plot of every Koontz book ever written: There is a guy and a girl' date=' they'll hook up (if they aren't already a couple), there is a kid/elderly/handicapped/animal that will get "adopted" by guy and girl, the bad guys will lose, and the good guys will live happily ever after. Vowed a long time ago to leave his books alone.[/quote'] this is true of about 90% of his books. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Watchers. I haven't read any Koontz. I web-search therefore I am. You won the NO PRIZE!!! go throw your self a party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Oh yeah, for sure. But again, it helps if you think of Covenent not as the hero of the story, but as the POV character. He's surrounded by the heroes (Mhoram, Foamfollower, Bannor, etc), but he himself is just along for the ride. People keep expecting him to be the hero, and he's always like, "Nah uh! Not my problem!" I dunno. I find that particular idea kinda refreshing. I've read a ton of "Nobody gets told he's the chosen one, and he jumps into the role and suddenly he's a great warrior and leader of men" books. I liked the whole "Nobody gets told he's the chosen one, and he tells everyone to go screw themselves 'cause he ain't getting involved in any of this weird magic crap." But, you know, that's just me. I'm contrary that way. I can understand being bored by standard heroic fantasy fare, "a nobody turning into the savior" which happens to be the foundation of about 80% of these types of books, the thing that got to me about the Covenant book (that I read) is the fact that the stories real heroes (every body else in the book) come across rather flat and 2 dimensional (Morham, Foamfollwer..etc I did like the horses though). I didn't get into it, I even felt cheated. and the Covenant character is just too loathsome to like, let alone waddle through 500 pages of badly written text where he is the obvious HERO of the story, I think it MIGHT have been a better story if the narration was told from somebody else's point of view, or perhaps each chapter could have been a different personage's impression of just who this Covenant character really is, I think that could have lent at least some drama to the whole affair. but then again your point of view is interesting. YO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, my man. Game on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Querysphinx Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I can understand being bored by standard heroic fantasy fare, "a nobody turning into the savior" which happens to be the foundation of about 80% of these types of books, the thing that got to me about the Covenant book (that I read) is the fact that the stories real heroes (every body else in the book) come across rather flat and 2 dimensional (Morham, Foamfollwer..etc I did like the horses though). I didn't get into it, I even felt cheated. and the Covenant character is just too loathsome to like, let alone waddle through 500 pages of badly written text where he is the obvious HERO of the story, I think it MIGHT have been a better story if the narration was told from somebody else's point of view, or perhaps each chapter could have been a different personage's impression of just who this Covenant character really is, I think that could have lent at least some drama to the whole affair. but then again your point of view is interesting. YO! I think that the Thomas Covenant/Linden Avery books are a lot like Atlas Shrugged of anything else by Anne Rand (sp?). They're books you read when you're young and when your brain is crying for gross overstimulation in the form of radical departures from ordinary morality. You enjoy them more at a time of your life when subtlety is a couple of four letter words mashed together. Regarding the Thomas Covenant books in particular, they are mostly a case of suspense being maintained by the character's continuous resistance to the "call to adventure." Resisting the call is part of the usual progression of the hero's journey, but it's usually dispensed with somewhere in the first third of the story. Thomas Covenant drags it out for three whole books. It's like watching someone stuck in the denial stage of grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloomann Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... I think that the Thomas Covenant/Linden Avery books are a lot like Atlas Shrugged of anything else by Anne Rand (sp?). They're books you read when you're young and when your brain is crying for gross overstimulation in the form of radical departures from ordinary morality. You enjoy them more at a time of your life when subtlety is a couple of four letter words mashed together. Regarding the Thomas Covenant books in particular, they are mostly a case of suspense being maintained by the character's continuous resistance to the "call to adventure." Resisting the call is part of the usual progression of the hero's journey, but it's usually dispensed with somewhere in the first third of the story. Thomas Covenant drags it out for three whole books. It's like watching someone stuck in the denial stage of grief. exactly, I remember my best friend when we were 17 year old nerds (as opposed to 40 year old nerds?) swearing by this novel, he went on and on how great it was, but I was in my Dune period and just never got around to reading the Covenant books until now. I probably would have liked it better then. angst angst angst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it... 3. Rationalize Religion Unable to parse this sentence, sorry. Can you espress it differently? Anyhow, I've almost finished Sasha (alternate review) by Joel Shepherd. I'd previously read and raved about his high tech cyberpunk series about Cassandra Kresnov (an android) - Crossover, Killswitch, Breakaway and this is his foray into fantasy. So far I'm liking it although I found it difficult to get into at first - there was too much politics, too fast at the beginning. It starts with the main character at training, but she spends all her time there talking about the possibilities of civil war between the various factions. It also doesn't help that all the names of things aren't spelt out. It would have helped if I'd known that the Serrin was a non-human race and that Verenthane, Goren-Yai and Nasi-Keth were religions/philosphies and the other names were provinces. It was too easy at the beginning to get them mixed up. Otherwise really good - lots of stuff in it that reminds me either of Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" or the low magic campaign I'm in of a friend of mine's (Montour). It has the structure of a modern epic - all the elements are there of great events, much like an historic epic. But like Martin and the RPG, he often "cuts to the chase". There is more action and less detailed backstory than Tolkein. As for the religion (to help Vondy out) - detail is not gone into. The Verenthane are an organised religion, probably with a holy book. I think they're pantheistic. They're the bad guys in general because the nobles who united the land all come from it, and are trying to rule a people that like their independance - most of whom stick with the old animist pagan ways of the Goren-Yai, which is more nature related. Both religions seem sexist - women have definite roles to play. I think the Nasi-Keth is the philosophy of the Serrin and is more zen buddhist/humanist (if it can be applied to a non-human philosophy). But this is just my understanding from the context in which the religions are referred to in the book. His second book in the series is out now, and I will be buying it when I get the chance. I was initially put off by the blurb on the back of the first book about the main character being a princess and the greatest swordfighter in the land - but as long as you read it in "movie trailer" voice - you realise that it's hype and not as cheesy as it sounds. For one thing - swordfighting is all well and good until you encounter lots of people, or someone with a crossbow Anyhow, I give it a ranking of 8 out of 10. I'd give it 10 if the beginning was easier to get into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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